Sarah Bolger (Spiderwick Chronicles Star)
Hilary Duff (Actress)
Skandar Keynes (Chronicles of Narnia Star)
Anais Lameche (PLAY Member)
Kimberly Leemans (Top Model)
Josh Peck (Actor)
Matthew Gray Gubler (Actor)

For Derek being so coordinated and amazing at dance he is such a Clutz!! It's hilarious. I wonder if the odds makers took into account the fact that he might end up in the hospital because he trips over a sequin or something. lol This isn't just me talking either. He's said it himself.

I'll be interested to see what injuries come up this next season. There have been quite a few lately and the show has become much more aware of the issue. I'll be interested to see if they do more to address it and if we see more issues. No doubt dancing can be brutal on your body.

Ever since he hurt his neck with Shannon, there's been a recurring neck issue - I don't think it was clutzy, it was turning his head too fast or wrong or something. Maybe that's why he cut his hair - he can't whip it around so maybe he won't hurt his neck. :-) Now with Brooke - THAT was clutzy. He and Mark have both said that they have trouble walking sometimes, but no trouble dancing. :-) His other issues on the show haven't been clutzy either - food poisoning, flu, hernia (hernia was this season). Oh, and he hurt his knee towards the end of the season with Lil' Kim.

The pros really abuse their bodies a lot - I imagine that Derek isn't the only one with problems that we don't hear of every season. I only know about Derek's because I pay attention. :-)

Isn't we we're discussing who the best pros and most popular pros are?Let's just put it this way, Cheryl is the best for me and Derek for you..I was just making a case for Cheryl and you are for Derek..Let's not argue, everyone do have their own preferences..Let's not impose who's right or not..People may disagree or agreed, but that doesn't mean they are right or wrong..We are just having a good discussions about this.But if you say so, then i'll let you have it your way.

And please i didn't say other dancers are less of a dancer or anything, i'm just saying that others are just better at showing off their partners better than the others..And that's where i thought Derek and Cheryl shines more than anybody..Even if i say Cheryl is the best, you don't have to believe or agree with me..Those are just MY OWN opinions.

But again, i've been saying over and over that no way to determine who truly is the best, until everyone of them get the same level of talent for partners in a season.It was just a bias opinion from all of us here..We are just both presenting a case for our favorites of why we think they are the best.I am not imposing nor arguing..So if you think Cheryl is absolutely not the best and others are better, then i respect that from you..:)

God, i'm just so bored..lol...Great discussion to have it with you Princess..My last post for this topic btw..I hope it didn't create any tension or ill feelings between us?Until we meet again..Chao Bella!

Belski, I've said several times that I think Cheryl is great - I just disagreed when you tried to make a case for her being best at everything. You stated it as an absolute - that will get me every single time. It turned into a discussion of who's best, but it started as you stating an absolute fact that everyone had to accept. Go back and read your first comment.

And you're still trying to hold up partners as a way to level the playing field and I keep telling you there is more to it than that. Cheryl did NOT go far with her two "Oldies" (extremely derogatory term, btw), so what exactly would Derek getting one prove? Unless of course he goes a lot farther than Cheryl did? I'm saying that Derek and Cheryl HAVE gotten the same level of talent in partners - Derek has had five that are similar to five of Cheryl's. The duds she didn't do well with are, according to you, oldies and she didn't do well with them - so how would Derek getting one help to determine who is truly the best?? Answer: It WON'T - at least, not in Cheryl's favor, since she didn't take them far.

Injuries as an excuse? Hello - Brooke had a bad foot for a couple weeks and Lil' Kim had the same injury as Melissa, she just didn't pimp it for sympathy votes. And Derek has danced hurt with at least three partners - and I'm not counting his bout with Flu this season (after which he still took Joanna to the final four). Thing is - he doesn't talk about it and his partners generally don't talk about it. It's only mentioned when he takes a trip to the hospital (Shannon AND Brooke AND Joanna) or they need it for "drama" cause they got nothing else (Brooke). EVERYONE has had injuries - a lot of it doesn't get shown because the producers either don't want it shown or don't need it for drama. Lots of people were complaining that Derek's flu got more attention than Lacey's flu - I think they both got plenty, but it's not like I counted the seconds. I'm sure someone has, though. :-)

You didn't create any tension!! I like discussing these things, it keeps my brain limber. Adults should be able to disagree without holding on to it. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. You're fine. :-)

Sorry for the double postings...I get errors and it doesn't come up right to my screen right away, and therefore i had no idea if it was posting..I try to rewrite some of it and why it gets shorter.lol

Again, i think Derek is the best male pro and i'm not undermining his ability..I would have like to say that he could be the best overall, but i'd like to reserve my judgement for that until i see him gets a more challenging partner..You can't say Cheryl has been on longer and yet, it doesn't matter if she got older people, it still counts.Cheryl on her 5th season, she already made to the finals 3x, with two championships in the bag and an oldy for a partner..She would have taken her older partners further, if it wasn't for the fact that both of them got very sick and one was severely injured..Wayne was suffering pneumonia at the time he was competing and was able to practice only for 2 hours a day for 3 days a week..Cheryl just never had the time and chance to get him going..Tom on the other hand, fractured both of his feet and had to withdraw..There are other factors too and why a season could be cut too short for some pros..Sometimes, it's out of their hand and control and shouldn't be held accountable to the pros..And yes i agree with Alec though how he blew his chance with Natalie last season..She had so much potential,very young, attractive, athletic, and everything to be a good candidate to win it..Same goes with Dmitry, but Mya was a definite ringer and why she's gone much further than Natalie though..And that's why i've been saying all along, Derek and Cheryl given with the right partners, both of them could never go wrong..But unless both of them have the same level of partners in a season, there is just no way to determine who could be the best overall amongst them.

But like i said, you may agree or not, but we all have our own opinions and favorites, and we tend to take sides and get bias for our favorites..No matter how much we discuss and argue this topic, no one's gonna change anyone's opinions anyway..I may have phrased some of my thoughts incorrectly early on, but i stand by my claim..I respect your opinions and everyone's here, so lets just leave it at that..

Well, belski, some would argue that prior to Mark and Derek showing up, and Julianne, she didn't have any real competition in terms of personality and charisma. :-) I will also remind you that in your original post YOU took out the two “oldies” in order to determine Cheryl’s rank. I was emulating you.

It's not just the pro and their partner that determines how they do - it's who the other pros are paired with as well. If not for Marie Osmond - of the massive fanbase, Derek would have gone to the finals with Jennie, a superior dancer to Marie by a mile. If not for Ty Murray - a basically crap dancer but hell of a great guy - Derek would AGAIN have made final four. That's two seasons that he was pretty much hosed by a very popular celeb who was a lesser dancer than his partner. Cheryl would have won her third trophy if not for a lesser dancer's (Shawn) massive, committed and young fanbase. You can't really hold a pro's record up against another's without taking into account the OTHER people on a given season. Do you think Jonathan is a lesser dancer or lesser all around pro because he's not gotten far in the competition? Talk about crap partners!!

And need I remind you that I was not actually arguing that someone was the best - YOU were arguing that Cheryl was the absolute best pro on the show by every measure. That's how this discussion got going - I disagreed with you. I was not actually claiming that Derek was the best (although he's best for ME), I was giving a lot of examples of WHY Cheryl is not the absolute best - although she's certainly up there. It may seem like a fine line, but it's really not.

This list seems off. Why is Alec higher than Tony? Alec's won once in season 1 but when given celebs with tons of potential in Toni and Natalie, he blew it. Tony went half way with Susan and Jane. He went to the semi-finals with Marissa. Belski is right. No one has had it better than Mark. Sabrina, Kristi, Shawn and Melissa. All had potential to dance and even when Melissa was not as good as others, she was a cutie with a fan base. He is ranked too high on that list. Cheryl, Maks, and Tony should be higher than Mark. He won twice but look at his partners then.

You have a good point Joan. I don't understand the Alec thing either. I think he totally blew it with Natalie in particular. That was a real shame. With another pro she might have gone all the way.

Donny is a legendary entertainer.He's been dancing all his life and performing..He was even labeled as a "ringer" ,likable, and with a massive fan base..He would have still win with anyone because of his fan base alone..He is only 51 compare to Wayne and Tom who are both well on their mid 60's..I don't really consider him as one of the oldest brads on the show..I am not complaining and crying for Cheryl's partners..Just like you, i get pissed when everyone complaining about Cheryl being favored..I was just saying, and i don't speak for Derek alone..It goes with the trio of Mark and the Houghs, that if you take notice carefully, they are the only ones that never really had an older partners so to speak..The other one being is Maks..SYTYCD alumnis i'll make exception because pretty much all of them are pretty new..I am not complaining as well for Derek's partners, i am arguing that unless you give them someone more challenging as the older people are, it's tough to tell and judge them how good they really are..There is only so much you can do with older people who can be very challenging for anyone to have, due to their very limited mobility.

You listed Cheryl partners well then lets analyse who Derek had.
Jennie- Had jazz and tap dancing experience..Pretty well known.
Shannon- Hottie
Brooke-Major hottie
Lil Kim- performer, hip hop dancer and choreographer
Joanna-major hottie, tap dancer as a kid, balley growing up.

For all the 5 seasons Cheryl and Derek were competing against each other, Cheryl had nothing but someone with no fan base, dance background or an oldy.The only exception Cheryl had was her first 2 seasons which she both won.After that, they made sure she got stuck with someone with not much advantage going in other than being a hottie..Which btw, i don't consider being a hottie an advantage?If they can dance---yes, otherwise, it is a non factor really to the voters..Especially if none of them do have the built in fanbase to start with..And other than Brooke, no hottie ever won the trophy at all..Fans prefer a cutie and a charmer than a sizzling stud..

For the last time, i am not complaining by any means..We are all just making a case here of who we think the best overall pro and most popular at the same time, that perhaps what factors in with the betting odds..We are just bringing up some facts to support each of our claims..But make no mistake, i am not undermining any of the pros..They are all special in their own way..But just like in every other sports, someone tends to shine and dominate more..Others, are just simply fan favorites..Nice talking to you Princess..I hope i didn't offend you or anyone here??Interesting discussion btw.;)

Next Topic please!!!!LOL

P.S. I just want to point out that i think Mark so far had been lucked out more than anybody.With Sabrina,Kristi,Shawn, and Melissa?3 of them are ringers and all of them are cuties with the fanbase..Kym is the only exception, but she was very famous and a major hottie too.

You didn't offend me, I like arguing (ask John) - but pointing out Joanna and Jennie as having dance experience is just ridiculous - sorry, hope I didn't offend *you*. But it is silly - especially Joanna who said on MANY occasions she had to give up ballet at age 11. REALLY??? Be serious. And you can easily compare Derek and Cheryl because Cheryl has had 8 partners - two of which were older and she DIDN'T do well with. Derek hasn't had anyone of that age, but you still can't say Cheryl is somehow better because she's had to deal with older celebs. Now, if her older guys had gone farther we'd have something to talk about. But if you eliminate those two, Cheryl is still ahead in the number of partners and she still hasn't had it any harder than Derek has - and she has had an Olympian. What I'm saying is, you can't hold up Cheryl as having done better or being more talented based on her partners and Derek's lack of older partners. It doesn't work. Cheryl has still had SIX partners that were just as good as Derek's five. And you continue to imply that Derek has had partners with a fanbase or dance experience - I will tell you again, you are wrong. His partners have not been younger, hotter, had bigger fanbases or had more dance experience than Cheryl's - that is a myth that some fans use to make themselves feel better about their favorite pro. You talk about Jennie - Cheryl had Ian (same age, same show). You mention Shannon - Drew (Drew probably better known and a better dancer). Brooke - Emmett (only comparison is that they both won - Brooke was an unknown, Emmett wasn't). Lil' Kim - well, gee, no comparison because she had a criminal record that would make some in the DWTS audience less likely to vote for her. Can Cheryl say the same? No, only if you count Tom Delay and we already eliminated him due to age. But let's stack Kim up with Maurice, even though he's an Olympian. Joanna - Cristian or Gilles - you pick. Pick one hottie and that leaves a hottie. Yeah....poor Cheryl having to deal with all the old people. Ummmm....no.

Being a hottie IS an advantage if you are a male hottie and often a disadvantage if you are a female hottie - think about it. Who votes for this show - women. They are more likely to vote for a Gilles than they are a Joanna (even I am more likely to vote for the hot guy - I am notoriously shallow :-) ). But let's say that you're right and being a hottie yet being unknown is not an advantage. Hey, guess what - that describes TWO of Derek's partners.

You say you're not complaining, yet you are doing the same thing to Derek that you complain about people doing to Cheryl - and it's equally not valid. I'm more than willing to say that (sans Julianne) Derek and Cheryl are the two pros on the show that have the whole package, but I will never agree to the spin you seem to be putting on it - that Cheryl is given worse partners yet still does well while Derek always gets great partners. If anything, they get the SAME partners, only of different genders.

You will get no argument from me in regards to Mark. That boy has been blessed. On paper, he was blessed with MJH and Kim K, too , even though they kinda sucked. There was no way of knowing that going in. But they were more well known than many of Derek and Cheryl's partners, and had no baggage like some of Derek and Cheryl's partners. With Corky as a father, it makes one wonder what goes on behind the scenes. Why hasn't HE got someone completely unknown?

P.S. You keep double posting I'm not sure how you're doing it, but I'm going to delete the shorter versions because it seems like you just added stuff and re-posted. The site is cached, so there might be a wait for a post to appear, so give it a few minutes if it doesn't show up right away.

To sum it up, bettings will go higher for the Houghs, because of their overall popularity and likability..Which by and large, what the show is likely becoming--More of a popularity contest..Even when other feels that someone might be better though..I'm not hating on them, they are my favorite dancers next to Cheryl..I'm just being honest.:)

And btw, the only reason i said Cheryl is the most sought partner among them is because they said it themselves.Wayne and Tom by the way admitted that they lobbied for her..So as Gilles who partially asked and hoped to get her..Maurice did too..And if you read a lot of male celebrities and athletes who are hoping to get on the show, most of their first choice is Cheryl..Even Donny before last season, Cheryl was one of his top 2 choices, the other one being Lacey..Even Jennie Garth's favorite female pro is Cheryl..She was her fave before she danced with Derek..Sherri Shepard, Kelly Ripa, Vivica Fox, Marlee Matlin are just some of the others who have expressed their fond of Cheryl's ability..Even some of them thinks she's the best choreographer out of everyone..And just like Derek, Cheryl is originally and hunanimously the favorite by a lot from the Jackson's clan..Debra Mazar even expressed her desire during the season that she hoped she was partnered with Cheryl instead of Maks.lol..Tom Bergeron if he has to do another dance, he likes Cheryl to dance with him..he thinks that she's the one who can make him look good..Now to get the respect of these people, i thought that says so much of how good she truly is..Biases aside, those compliments are hard to ignore...And don't forget hollywood style just picked Cheryl a couple of months ago of being the best choreographer...That's a pretty prestigious event to be recognized where hollywood people and the press are the ones who voted for her..I'm just making a case for her??I'm just saying, put the biases aside from the fans and you put all the comments and what the high profile people and professionals are saying together, clearly, Cheryl could just really be the best in the bunch to be noticed highly.

I'm just making a case of who could be the best overall pro..Otherwise, i may have to give the popularity edge to Derek and Julianne though..They both have endearing personalities..Cheryl is very popular too, but a little polarizing to say the least..And that's coming from a big Cheryl fan..Though, i think all the pros do have their strengths and weaknesses.

I'm not discrediting Derek with his ability and talent.He is indeed my favorite male pro dancer on the show..I like his great sense of humor, and i do admit that just like Cheryl, he does have the ability to make his partners look very good..In spite of lacking the experience and the fan base on some of his partners, he tends to do very well with them..But common lets be fair, you know that old people are bound to suck and not do well on the show..They are just not as agile as the others and no matter how talented a pro can be, it's just never gonna work for them.

Unless Derek gets someone more challenging as lets say, a lot older women or probably someone with disability, it really is tough to judge of what the pros are truly capable to do of..Ok i admit, i get carried away here and i get very bias towards my favorite, but so as everyone of us here..I say the same thing for Mark..

Regarding the professional comments i made, well there are tons of blogs out there from them and majority of them do lean towards Cheryl of being the best partner to have and the best overall pro on the show.Not necessarily the best dancer, but according to a lot of them, she does have the best ability to show off her partners better than everybody else..Not to mention, the best teacher amongst them.But again, i might be bias.

And about the design a dance?It's really tough to go up agains Mark and the Houghs with any contests..Especially when you go up against younger fans who are willing to sit hours and hours voting for them..Moreover, they have the most access to internet and phones, and are more tech savvy..And don't forget that their combined fan bases alone, is tough to beat..Let's face it, most of their individual supporters if not them, would probably vote for the other one of the three or the other younger pros that their fans perceives to be someone closer to their style of preference or they think are closer to them in person..Derek is probably getting votes as well from Julianne followers and vice versa due to their blood relation..Now see, that's one luxury that other pros don't have.

We can all debate and go on and on about this, but until all the pros get partners with the same level of ability, agility, experience, age, and so on...We will never gonna know really who truly the best of the best are..Although in my estimation, i honestly think that Cheryl and Derek are the best female and male pros respectively in the group.. cause time and time again, they have proven their competitiveness and what can they do with their partners even when most of the time, both of them have never really got a partner who you might call as a "ringer"..You look at Mark, without a ringer by his side, he seems lost.JMO.

I like all the pros, and i have tremendous respect for each of one of them..It's not easy what they do and they truly deserve the credit for all the things they have accomplished in their careers..But as a fan, we are all entitled to some opinions...These are all just opinions and no intentions of bashing..To each it's own..Peace Out!:)

But Belski, the fact that Derek, Julianne and Mark have fans who are willing to devote a LOT of time to voting IS a huge measure of popularity in and of itself. While I know Julianne fans vote for Derek and vice versa, I also know that Lacey fans vote for Mark and vice versa - I also know there were other teaming arrangements being made between fan groups for other pros besides Derek, Mark and Lacey - I know this for a FACT and it went beyond Mark, Lacey, Derek and Julianne - the only reason it didn't work out for Cheryl is because it was for this year and once Mark became a lock for the male pro (putting three of his partners who also happen to have rabid fanbases as the celeb - gee, how hard was it for Mark to win that one? Answer: Not at all hard. Shoe in.), Cheryl no longer had a shot. I would argue that doing it the way they did, no one stood a chance against Mark, even though I'm pretty confident that the audience that goes well beyond the internet was voting for Derek (because he won the previous two years) they didn't stand a chance against young power voters. I also believe that the first year when Derek/Julianne won it went well beyond young'uns who were willing to vote for hours on end. Mainly because it didn't appear on the boards that Derek fans were voting as much as other fans - I think his fans skew slightly older than Marks.

"Old people suck"? Donny Osmond is 52, need I remind you and while not the best dancer, he was certainly better than some much younger than him - Melissa Joan Hart, for one. Louie Vito for another. So, being ageist isn't always accurate. Let's look who Cheryl has been partnered with:
Emmitt Smith - Won, pro footballer, age 38
Drew Lachey - Won, former pop star
Ian Zeiring - male Jennie Garth, semi-finals
Wayne Newton - Vegas star, older, elimanated week three
Christian de la Fuente - major hottie, young, took third place
Maurice Greene - OLYMPIAN, made it to week 8
Gilles Marini - SECOND PLACE, major hottie and fan favorite
Tom DeLay - dud, criminal, you name it.

From where I sit, Cheryl's fans have FAR less to complain about than some fans do - she has NOT been treated shabily by producers and has been given great partners (on paper at the very least) all but TWO times (Wayne and Tom - and Tom would have gone farther ifnot for getting hurt)!! Only two of her partners have been unknown and look how those turned out - pretty darn good. Now you wanna look at the people Edyta or Anna T. generally end up with?? THEY have reason to complain. I would argue that Cheryl is in a much better boat than Derek is, from a partner perspective, but since she's been on 8 seasons to Derek's 5, she's had time to have more better partners and a couple duds. But then, I don't generally *complain* about Derek's partners - I just get annoyed by the highly innaccurate claims that Derek always gets great partners compared to others and that's why he does well. It's bogus.

I pretty much agree with the list. Though I think Dmitry should be a bit lower down. Were the fans the only ones who noticed that his mind is still in SYTYCD mode?
In my opinion, I really don't like Cheryl - if other people think she's amazing, great. *cough cough* her personality is just kind of dull.

You're not the only one, dwts, that noticed that about Dmitry - and worst of all he couldn't seem to figure out what the problem was - did he never watch the show?

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Sorry double postings.The first one did not come up right to my screen.

The bettings has anything more to do with who are the fan favorites and who likely to get the best partners..Mark and both Houghs were never assigned and given a more challenging partners like the others..From those two factors alone, of course my money should be on them too..The 3 of them are the least likely to get the oldies for a partner.