Stars with Dance Experience
Every season the topic of previous dance experience seems to come up. Most of the people are angry that one of the stars has dance experience. Of course, it’s usually a little bit disingenuous since these angry people are often just fans of one of the other stars/pros. However, I can’t say that I don’t sympathize with their feelings. It is completely unfair for one person to have more dance experience than another. At least when we’re talking about a dance competition. That doesn’t feel right.
What most people don’t realize is that Dancing with the Stars never said that this competition was fair. Plus, is there such a thing as a fair competition? Some people just have more natural dance ability. Who would have guessed that Brooke Burke would have been such a great dancer? I know I wouldn’t have guessed it. Yet, she just had some real natural ability that she was able to bring to the table. Is that fair that she can learn things faster than others? Of course not.
Let’s just get it behind us that this is a fair competition. It’s not a fair competition. It’s a show that’s meant to entertain us. Plus, it’s not like the stars that participate aren’t getting something in return. They’re getting paid to be on the show and they’re getting a ton of exposure. Sure, they like the competition aspect, but there are a lot of other reasons these stars go on DWTS.
Why don’t we take this one step further? Dancing with the Stars really isn’t a dance competition. Yes, it resembles a dance competition, but it’s really not. It’s a popularity contest. Ok, in the beginning it’s more of a dance competition, but once we reach this point in the competition the judges scores are so close that they become irrelevant. That means that the show becomes a popularity contest and not a dance contest.
Using that line of thinking, it’s completely unfair that one star is more popular than another, right? I mean if DWTS is just a popularity contest, then DWTS should make sure that they don’t bring on any stars that are more popular than another star right? That’s basically what people are saying when they say they don’t want people with previous dance experience, no? Of course, both ideas will never happen.
I guess at the end of the day, I don’t get all worked up over it all. The show is about entertaining me and it does that very well. Sure, I love prognosticating on who will go home and what not. However, the fact that one has more dance experience just adds to the fun of guessing what’s going to happen. The more variables to consider the better.
Of course, this isn’t much consolation if it’s your favorite star or pro that’s getting sent home. Don’t worry. Next season it will be your favorite star or pro that’s staying while another “more deserving” star/pro get sent home.
That’s interesting.
Here’s and interview with Conrad Green in regrds to ‘Ringers”
“Don’t worry. Next season it will be your favorite star or pro that’s staying while another “more deserving” star/pro get sent home.”
This I don’t agree with. I wish this was the case…but it isn’t. Some are always lucky ( like Derek) and some aren’t. I’m not saying Derek gets ringers… but he gets capable partners. The personality and fans thing is relative. Even Mark got Shannen, who believe it or not is 40+ y/o. And don’t get me started on partners Tony gets. Melissa doesn’t count coz she was a replacement.
Jeniffer,
Luck plays a part also. There’s no doubt there. However, sooner or later, that luck runs out or the luck comes together. Kym was one of the most unlucky pros on the show. Then, she got Donny and looked like the most lucky. Stay on it long enough and you’re bound to have some good and bad draws.
What is becoming more and more interesting is how the pros on the show are becoming the real fan favorites. Even more than the stars that are on the show.
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/37159939/ns/today-entertainment/
The link to Conrad Green interview.
It’s also interesting that the celebs are now by the media called the celebs/the contestants and the pros are called the stars.
I heart all our pros. They ae the most talented / hardworking people on tv right now.
Luck has a lot to do with some pros getting “good” celebs, but there is a practical aspect to it as well – the producers try to match up pros & celebs based on age, height, possibility for chemistry, and in general, how “good they look together”. It may sound shallow, but it’s exactly what happens in the real ballroom world – couples that look good together on the floor but aren’t as technically skilled can frequently place higher than fantastic dancers that look mismatched. Ballroom is all about the archetypal romantic couple: the strong, masculine, domineering man, and the delicate, feminine, submissive female – and if you look at the couples over the seasons, it looks like they’ve tried to do just that (but of course, there are exceptions ;-)) They want the couples to look like they could be believable as a couple. That may mean that certain pros may consistently get younger, more able-bodied celeb partners – would you really want to see a sexy 20-something like Nicole rubbing up on Corky during the rumba? Or Cloris giving sex eyes to Derek? Some pros also seem to fare better with certain personality types – could you imagine Mel B. having as much impact on the audience if she were paired with Alec? Or see Maks try like hell to not make Natalie cry? How about height difference? We’ve seen 5’4″ Cheryl struggle with 6’1″ Chad; could you imagine 5’8-9″ Mark trying to waltz with a willowy supermodel like 5’11” Kathy Ireland? The point is, some pros are always going to have a bit of a perceived advantage just due to casting. With a set number of celebs doing the show each season, there’s only so many to pair up with, and someone is always gonna get the short end of the stick – and sometimes the same person is going to get it more than once. But John is right – eventually, given enough time, everyone gets at least one decent partner. Even Jonathan Roberts, who seems to be perenially screwed over in the partner department, hit the jackpot with Marie Osmond – ditto for Kym, who seemed to suffer from “Always the bridesmaid, never the bride” syndrome until she got Donny. It’s not always fair, but then again…neither is life.
Nice analysis courtney. The size and shape of people matters too.
Again, all of these extra elements is what is so intriguing about the “game.” They all contribute a little bit to the end result.
I’ve been saying for a couple season now that if they paired Derek and/or Mark up the way that some (jealous) fans want them to, the ratings would plummet, because I don’t know many people who would be able to stomach a Derek Hough getting pawed by a Cloris Leachman. Or little Chelsie paired up with a Wayne Newton. Some of these pros just aren’t going to look right with some celebrities. Edyta can pull off the Wayne’s of the world because she seems older, more worldly. Tony can dance with the older women because he, unlike Derek, doesn’t EVER resemble a 14 year old. 🙂 Poor Derek – cursed with a baby face. But it does get him the hot, younger chicks on the show. Just the way it goes. As for Mark and Shannen – I thought she looked great and that they matched up beautifully.
Ah, the ringer/experience questions. Heidi and I have had some fun arguments about this. My thought is that the show wants dancers of different skill level and fan base to give people variety and get the most people watching. The point is to have a “diverse cast.” So, as John’s pointed out, the show can’t be fair, either in terms of popularity or ability, by definition. I think the show is only a competition not because the competition matters in any fair but because more viewers watch. Our culture is unfortunately competitive, and this way viewers can help “save” their favorite celebrities, so they feel engaged and watch more. I’m sure if DWTS weren’t in competition format and were just random celebrities doing ballroom dances every week, the show would not be very popular. This way there’s a story arc, who does better, who doesn’t, sort of life and death. A reason to tune in, a way to give the show a plot as if it were a drama. So the show is not a competition, but it does very well by pretending.
I am tired from lots of (better) writing (than this post), so please forgive all the errors there. Yikes.
Ahhh, such nice quiet intellectualizing banter, so much more pleasant than calling Derek’s opponents “[censored]” and “obnoxious immigrants” as in the past few weeks.
No more rants as you deliberately misinterpret an opponent’s blog so you can charge him with something newly concocted about him. The semi’s have convinced you that you now need to play nice, I guess.
PureDWTS stands at the pinnacle as the most trashy polarizing internet site manipulating information without conscience and spewing hate against Derek Hough’s peers on a silly dancing show. Are you really representative of Derek Hough?
Just had to drop in to make public note of your newly invented mannerly behavior. I believe someone owes some of Derek’s peers some sincere apologies — a tweet or two to retract the hate that was sent last week.
Time to put in my few cents…
Even though it seems like some pros get lucky with their partners, it is also how the pros teach and how well the celebs pick up choreography that help with the grand scheme of things.
Derek’s worst placement was with Shannon Elizabeth who had no dance experience (as far as I recall) and is an actress/model, and even then they placed 6th. Other pros that have had an actress/model with a similar background (Tatum O’Neal, Vivica Fox, Denise Richards) didn’t do as well as Derek did… so to me that’s more of a testament of his teaching style than luck of the draw.
An example of someone with a lot less luck with partners, but a very strong track record is Cheryl Burke. Ever since Season 2 she’s been in the top five except twice, and they were both men in their 60s. Derek hasn’t had to work with a woman in her 60s yet… so taking the two men out of the analysis Cheryl’s track record is better on average than Derek’s and she didn’t have partners with prior dance training or had picked up choreography in their day jobs (Drew Lachey being the only one).
Using the same above analysis for Cheryl I would apply to Louis van Amstel. His lowest placing being with Priscilla Presley (who HAD dance training in her youth) but she’s in her 60s… all his other partners did not have any dance experience (the only exception being Monique Coleman) he has placed from 3rd thru 6th thus far (again with Priscilla taken out of the analysis).
That being said, those that pick up choreography in their primary job (boy/girl bands, movie musicals, entertainers) regardless of dance background typically do better on average (placing no lower than 7th – Sabrina/Mark) than those that have admitted towards prior dance training in their youth but do not use it in their primary job.
In the end, when it comes to dances, Dancing with the Stars is more about which celebs could pick up choreography and technique and make it look effortless rather than if they understand the concept of the dance. As for popularity? That’s a whole other can of worms.
Hi Joanie,
Glad that you enjoyed the post. We have a number of writers on the site each with their own views on the show. Thus the multiple personalities you might notice when various people are posting at different times. You can see who wrote which posts at the top. If you want to just read one writer’s posts you can also click on their name to read just the posts written by that person.
I do think it’s funny that you think that PDWTS is the “most trashy polarizing internet site.” Go visit some political blogs and it’s 100 times worse than this site. There’s no doubt that Heidi is a Derek Hough fan. She runs http://www.purederekhough.com for heaven’s sake. Of course, she’s a fan of him. Other than that, the rest of the writers don’t really have a preference to Derek in particular. Well, I guess I do have a preference for blonde females. That should be abundantly clear. So, yes, I am secretly cheering for Erin to pull off a miracle. lol
Joanie, I’m only gonna say this one more time: don’t like it? DON’T READ IT. And in this case – if you aren’t going to contribute something other than hate to what was a decent discussion, then please – move along. If you want someone to harp at, come scream at Heidi and I on one of our posts – don’t take out your frustrations on John. He had a good idea for a post and your rage is pretty uncalled for here.
Besides the fact that the celebs get paired up with the pros based on height, personality, and chemistry, I wonder if the producers have favorite pros (hence giving them “better” partners)?
Let’s say, Derek, for example. He’s obviously (IMO) the most likable pro, and the best choreographer on the show. So I wouldn’t be surprised if the producers like him enough to give him better celebs/hot girls. LOL
Lastly, OT: Team Nicole & Derek FTW!!
Mark Ballas also took the producers ugly daughter out on a date. So, that’s actually the real reason why he gets ringers all the time. Ok, that’s a total made up lie. However, there’s no doubt that similar things could have happened that make the producers like one pro over another.
With that said, I’m guessing there’s a “committee” of producers/other peeps that do the pairings. So, one person can influence, but I bet it’s likely a group decision type of thing where they talk about all the factors that have been mentioned in this thread.
i’m not the same jennifer from the first coment
to be honest a don’t mind dance experience, how bad would be the dances on the show with no ringer’s, imagine only kate’s and Chad’s on the show, i enjoy watch some good dances
Oh Jennifer, that’s far too reasonable. Stop that;-)
It’s a very fine point. The same could be said if they wanted to have an all “dancer” season. I would miss having a few train wrecks in there too.
as far as pros getting ringer go, there is a lot of lucky on that too, high is a big issue, like everybody knew that Mark would get Shawn, not only from the high but from the age too, Shawn was 17 and Mark is the youngest and the shortest male pro on the show( how wierd would be her dancing with Maks 6’0 and 29 years old).
John is all about balance, this season has a great balance of ringers and train wrecks but to be honest i don’t watch train wrecks, i didn’t watch one dance from Kate this season (tried the tango but couldn’t), like a said i like good dances, that is the reason i watch the show first place (of course i love sytycd too)
Ok, so maybe it’s not the train wrecks completely. It’s seeing the train wrecks improved. I love seeing that improvement and the confidence they get when they do improve.
I’m also a fan of SYTYCD (Shameless Plug: http://www.puresytycd.com/ )
Geez, Joanie, for a site you hate so much you sure do spend a lot of time here. Thanks for the hits. 🙂 As for Maks? He has earned everything he gets. If he wants to “speak his mind” he has to deal with other people calling him on his bullshit. Apologies? When he does. Maybe. Maybe not.
John, quit ruining Joanie’s rationale for everyone not kissing Maks’ ass. 🙂 If you out yourself as liking blonde women, it ruins her (extremely flimsy) storylines.
If the ringers won every season, I’d agree with those who argue that it’s unfair, but generally they don’t. It ends up being about something else whether or not you call it improvement over the season or popularity. Plus as I’ve mentioned before having the more experienced dancers gives the story arc a “Rocky” feel and allows people to cheer on the underdogs without dance experience.
So You Think You Can Dance has taught me something else too: even people who’ve danced all their lives in another dance genre, can have a super difficult time with ballroom.
This really isn’t on topic, but I’ve found PureDWTS to be relatively drama free. The haters really get me down!!! I enjoy all three of the finalists this season, and will vote for whoever does the best in the finals regardless of how I’ve been voting the rest of the season. Anyway, I really enjoy this site!
Thanks Beth. Glad you enjoy it. We appreciate you reading it.
I’m totally with you on the final 3. I like all of them. Which is more than I can say for many of the past seasons.
I think there’s 2 major caveats about limiting DWTS to those with no dance experience: ambiguity and ratings. I’ll explain…
…if they’re going to exclude celebs who have had any kind of dance experience, then they’re going to have to get pretty detailed histories from each of the candidates. Did they take grow up taking dance lessons, a la Erin? Or did they only take one ballroom class in college, like Misty? Does their professional work involve dancing, like Nicole? Or do they do drunken jigs while wearing a loincloth, like Steve-O? It gets really, really, ambiguous…where do you draw the line? And if previous dance experience is considered an unfair advantage, I think we should look at other skills that could be advantageous as well…athletes have great strength an endurance. That’s not something that all the contestants have, so that’s an advantage. Actors are better at capturing the emotion of the dance (when they’re not uber nervous like Shannen), while others aren’t. That’s an advantage. Buzz was an American legend with a lot of supporters, going into the competition. Some of the other celebs don’t have as many fans. So Buzz now has an advantage. I could go on & on…the point is, if they’re going to exclude anyone with dance experience because it’s considered an “unfair advantage”, then they may as well disqualify everyone, because when it comes down to it, you can argue that everyone has an edge of some sort. And as Beth wisely mentioned above – just because you have dance experience doesn’t mean you’ll win. If anything, it can be a bit of a disadvantage, because more is expected of you, and viewers who believe that the show should be “fair” refuse to vote for you.
The other problem is the ratings beast. I don’t think anyone can say, with confidence, that the show would still have stellar ratings if every celeb was a Tucker Carlson/Jeff Ross/Kenny Mayne/[insert inept celeb dancer here]. Yes, you can argue that it’s fascinating to watch the more inexperienced celebs grow & improve, but the unfortunate fact is that many really don’t improve – they’re no better in week 6 than they were in week 1. I can’t speak for everyone, but it would be pure agony for me to have to watch someone (or a whole cast of someones)struggle pitifully week after week with no improvement in sight. As I mentioned in another post, I almost feel its necessary to have a ringer or two in each cast – not only does it ensure some show-stopping dance numbers early on, but it also gives the less talented celebs something to aspire to and try to beat.
Ideally, the show would be 100% fair and everyone would have a fair shot at the trophy. But this is life, and life is not fair…and it’s nary impossible to level the playing field completely.