DWTS Season 11 – The Great “Previous Dance Experience” Debate, Part I
Since the cast announcement, there’s been a lot of talk about whether or not some of this season’s cast members have an unfair advantage on the show due to having “previous dance experience”. So I took it upon myself to do a little digging around to see just who out of our 12 celebs is no stranger to the dance floor…and guess what? All of them have done a little dancing before…well, at least a very loose definition of dancing 😉 So why don’t we see how they all measure up, shall we? Let’s begin with the stars with the more obvious experience: Brandy, Florence, Jennifer, & the Hoff. Watch and discuss…
First up, we have Brandy, who starred in a revival of Rodgers & Hammerstein’s Cinderella back in 1997. Here’s her big “dance number” – the song “Ten Minutes Ago”, where she croons with Paolo Montalban while doing some Viennese waltzing:
As for any experience she may have garnered in her music video days, here’s the most “dance-heavy” video of hers I could find – “Afrodisiac”:
Courtney: Ok, the first video is some pretty basic Viennese waltzing – natural turn, reverse turn, underarm turn, repeat. And Brandy & Paolo suspiciously disappear when the extras begin the heavy duty spinning & lifting. I mean, as far as an advantage – it may save Maks 15 mintues of practice time explaining what the Viennese waltz is and what the basic movement is. But other than that…nah. As for her video (and I think this goes for all of her videos in general) – Brandy does a lot of grooving and a little bit of basic choreo, but she leaves the hard stuff to her backup dancers. She may be able to inject the “sexy factor” into her dances, but I don’t think she’s going to have an edge in terms of technical skill.
Marianya: I remember when I first saw Brandy and Paolo dance in Cinderella I promised myself that I would learn how to do that. And then when I went to do it, it was the most basic steps in the repertoire… talk about disappointment. Also in regards to music videos or shows, Brandy was big in the 90s, but the 90s weren’t all that dance heavy for the female soloists… at least not until Britney Spears and Co. from the Mickey Mouse club took over the music world for a spell (turn of the millennium). So really in regards to prior dance experience, none… can she pick up choreo? Definitely, but that’s something that most anyone could do… the mere fact that she’s done choreo before just edges here out slightly…
Heidi: Who choreographed that Cinderella thing? Will they own up to it? 🙂 Yeah, not a ringer, but I do think she has more of an advantage due to her relative youth and physical conditioning.
The verdict: Her basic knowledge of choreo may give her a SLIGHT advantage, but we think she’s going to have more of an edge from her young age & great body.
Now we’re onto Florence Henderson, who did some serious disco grooving back when she was on The Brady Bunch Variety Hour (unless you want to sit through some serious cheese, I recommend starting at the 2:24 mark to see Flo shake her groove thing 😉 ):
Marianya: I was watching this at work and was shaking my head a few times… man everyone was all over the place, it’s amazing. The steps are very basic that most anyone could pick up the choreo, I don’t think this could transcend into ballroom dancing. Plus it’s been a few decades for her… and she’s not getting any younger.
Courtney: The hustle portion is hysterical – at some point, every single one of them messes up. Again, some pretty elementary “jazz hands” type dancing…which even Flo fouls up a few times. And this was quite a few years ago – I don’t know that Flo is gonna be as lithe & nimble now as she was then.
Heidi: Didn’t I also read that Florence was also a Broadway baby? Yup, I did. 🙂 I think, like Jennifer, that her age kind of equalizes any perceived benefit to having been in Oklahoma and South Pacific – but the advantage that doesn’t go away is the comfort in front of a live audience and doing a live performance. See, I think everyone has an advantage of some sort – it’s going to come down to who has the most.
The verdict: Her age will likely negate any edge she may have had from Broadway, but she may be more comfortable in front of a live audience than some of the other celebs…just don’t ask her to do the Hustle. 😉
Here we have the celeb who has been accused of having the greatest amount of dance experience this season – Jennifer Grey. Now, due to the fine folks at Lionsgate Entertainment and their vigilant policing of any uploaded clips from Dirty Dancing, an embeddable copy of the famous “final dance” from the movie does not exist on the interwebs – so you can go watch it here.
Courtney: Ok, now while this iconic scene may be forever embedded in some folks’ minds as “fantastic dancing”, I think Marianya (and anyone else that has seen REAL mambo) will agree that this is pretty mediocre by most ballroom standards. Very stiff, very obviously choreographed. And again – quite a few years ago, and Jennifer has had some health problems since then, so even if she could remember these moves, there’s no guarantee that she’d be able to execute them.
Heidi: Interesting note about this dance: I read or saw a show on Patrick Swayze and they said this was the first dance filmed and they could only do ONE take because Patrick was having…was it back issues?? There was not a lot of takes on this dance, if the thing I saw was correct. It’s possible they were talking about “the lift” too. It’s been a while. That said – I think that most people are blinded by the romance of the moment, and miss the amateurish dancing. It’s a sweet movie – but it’s not truly about dancing.
Marianya: It’s funny when you see iconic dances in movies or television and you think “I wanna be able to do that” and when you actually start learning, it’s a whole different ball of wax. Now, Jennifer has studied dance growing up, but that was how many decades ago? Sure, she could pick up choreography… decades ago, but again, so can most anyone else. I think Jennifer would be slightly ahead of the game in the ballroom dances due to her dance studies growing up, but in regards to the latin dances the most is probably the basics in mambo, but that’s it… An edge? Not enough to win, but enough to score above average I’d say.
Courtney: Heidi, I’m glad you notice the amateurish dancing as well. I think it becomes especially obvious when you compare Patrick & Jennifer’s version to Cheryl & Tony’s version that they performed during season 2 – notice how much more fluid it looks when people who know how to actually dance mambo do it:
The verdict: She may have a slight advantage from her Dirty Dancing days, but that alone not going to be enough to take her all the way.
Last but not least, we’ve got David Hasselhoff. Now as one of the videos that Heidi posted earlier mentioned, David has a little bit of musical theater under his belt – he’s been in the Las Vegas production of The Producers, was the lead in Jekyll & Hyde on Broadway back in 2000, and played Billy Flynn in the London production of Chicago for 3 months back in 2004. Now while I’d love to showcase him dancing in one of these productions, I cannot find any videos of him in The Producers or Chicago, and Jekyll & Hyde is not a very dance-heavy musical. However, I do have something even better – the Hoff getting funky in the 1976 film Revenge of the Cheerleaders:
Courtney: *hysterically laughing* Wow, those cheerleaders were loving them some Hoff! Ok, that aside, I’m sure the Hoff has some rhythm, and I think the musical theater background has helped – but then again, if my knowledge of musicals serves me, Billy Flynn & Roger DeBris (his role in The Producers) aren’t known for being particularly difficult roles, dance-wise. Mainly a lot of jazz hands 😛 What I’m more concerned about – and I’ve said this before – is that the Hoff’s mind may be a bit rusty. Seriously- sometimes I think he’s got more than a few screws loose. So in spite of all this experience, I think he might have trouble remembering choreography (or even being able to pay attention when Kym is teaching it). What good is previous experience if you can’t remember it to draw from?
Marianya: Oh heaven help me. If that is what the Hoff is capable of then I foresee another Jerry Springer in the works. I saw the Hoff in the Jekyll & Hyde musical and there was no dancing in there. In fact the other parts that he has done in musical theatre were minimal if any dancing. So I don’t know if he could pick up choreo, ok he could pick up choreo but I don’t believe that he could do anything with it like Donny Osmond. He’ll ham it up, that’s for sure… but I think the buck will stop there.
Heidi: Oh my lord. What more can I say about that? I think The Hoff is going to do well on the show, but I don’t think it will be because of any perceived advantage.
The verdict: If he does well on the show, it sure as hell won’t be due to his Broadway experience – or the sizzling moves we see here!
So there you go – some food for thought for those of you who think that some of these celebs have an unfair advantage. But what about the other celebs this season, you ask? Oh boy – just you wait for part II…because you guys are gonna be blown away by some of the hoofing the other celebs have done in the past 😉 Did you sense the sarcasm there?
OMG *dyinnnng* at that last video with David Hasselhoff. ROTFLLLL
What a scream. Great post guys. I agree….they are all pretty much evenly matched this year. No one has an advantage over the other.
Thanks for the memories of Tony and Cheryl doing the Dirty Dancing number. I see what you mean about what was “real” dancing and what was not. Then again, Jennifer’s character in the movie was just a beginning dancer. If she had danced like Cheryl it would have come off un-natural.
Anyway, great post down memory lane. This is so fun. I’m so anxious to see what these set of pros can do with these celebrities.
I love this post! 🙂
Wonder if it’s all going to come down to choreography. I was thinking about how bad some of the dance choices were in past seasons with celebs who had the potential to do really well until their pro partners flubbed the choreography.
Thanks for another absolutely lovely post. I thought Margaret was going to provide the comic relief, but I think David may give her a run for her tatts. This really does appear to be an evenly matched group vis-a-vis dance experience – I love it. It may come done to who’s more comfortable with performing for a live audience. I agree with all your obserations – no ringers here, that’s for sure. Choreo and partner vibe will be all the more important. I also think sometimes the song choice makes a difference – those have been pretty strange at times and I wonder if that doesn’t hinder the performance, when you have to dance to a god-awful song or worse, one that doesn’t translate well into the dance you’re having to perform.
@all – Thank you all so much for the great feedback! I’m glad you’re enjoying everything so much…it definitely helps keep me motivated to write more, and I’m sure John, Heidi, & Marianya will all agree!
The Hasselhoff video was just too damn funny not to post. Granted, some of his music videos have been equally as funny, but it’s a bit harder to poke fun at them considering the massive success he’s had overseas. Clearly he’s doing SOMETHING right…but I’m still on the fence about him this season. I think Heidi mentioned it in another post, but the Hoff’s biggest advantage very well might be that he is not afraid to make a fool of himself – so he’ll do pretty much ANYTHING Kym tells him to. And people love a ham!
@Vogue – Good point about Jennifer in the final dance of Dirty Dancing. I think she was supposed to intentionally look amateurish, but unfortunatley I think Patrick did too – he’s pretty stiff in that routine compared to Tony, plus Tony is actually doing the proper hip & knee action of the mambo. But man – I loved both Tony & Cheryl’s performance in season 2 & the Swayze tribute in season 9. Just goosebumps every time I watch them! But I think because it’s been done so many times on DWTS, people holding out for Jennifer doing that famed dance as a freestyle or a mambo may be disappointed – plus I think Derek would aim for something a bit more original.
@Carlie & Linde – Both very good points about choreography & song choice making a huge difference. A good example of choreography really making or breaking a couple is the freestyle – I still think Gilles & Cheryl and Mya & Dmitry could have won their respective seasons had they not totally flubbed their freestyles, especially Gilles. And I wish I had a dime for every terrible song choice that did no favors for the couples! “Baby Got Back” was the final nail in the coffin for Kim Kardashian – she stunk, but had they gotten a different song, I think she could have stuck around at least one more week. And in the category of awful rumba songs – I have to wonder who Lacey & Mark pissed off in season 9 to get stuck with “Don’t Lie” by the Black Eyed Peas & who decided to punish Aiden & Edyta with “Live Like We’re Dying” this past season. Just awful. But in the same vein, the right song can also make a mediocre performance seem great – I loved Chelsie & Louie’s rumba to “Total Eclipse of the Heart”, even if the steps weren’t all that great.
It’s definitely shaping up to be an interesting season, that’s for sure…and if you thought the videos in this post were a hoot, just wait until part II! I laughed till I cried when I found some of them 😛
I couldn’t agree more about “song choice”. It’s just as important or it will break the whole dance even if the dancing was good.
Courtney: “But I think because it’s been done so many times on DWTS, people holding out for Jennifer doing that famed dance as a freestyle or a mambo may be disappointed – plus I think Derek would aim for something a bit more original.”
I agree, Plus, I kind of think they wouldn’t want to do it out of respect and love for Patrick. It’s a personal dance and if I was Jennifer, I’d wouldn’t want to do that dance with anyone else.
Speaking of your part on Florence, here’s a fun little read to go with this post ( I swear….nobody better count this lady out. She’s primed and ready to go with the best of them . I have a feeling age will not be a factor);
http://www.theatermania.com/new-york/news/09-2010/florence-henderson-gets-ready-to-go-dancing_30166.html
*Can’t wait for part 2! You guys Rock!
Brandy did that waltz 13 ago, its pretty much meaningless.
*years
Brandy mentioned that VWaltz was camera movement, rather than her, and we never did see their feet. I don’t think even had basic waltz movement, she certainly didn’t have correct dance position. So based on these vids, I don’t see her as the runaway winner of this competition at all. Certainly she can get to top 3.
Florence and Dave, oy vey, that’s really not indicative of anything. I think they will be entertaining, but becoming dancers?
As far as Jennifer is concerned, yes it was a bit stiff, but boy was it sexy. For me, much more appealing in that it was the story, and for that reason it was better than the pro dancers conveying the same dance. It’s like saying who does a better mambo? Tony or Emmit Smith, well of course Tony but Emmit is pure joy. That’s what I felt from Jennifer. If she can convey that kind of sexy vulnerability, I think she can really do well. I think what will be important for these actors is the pre-dance video package and the partner connection… they seem to be all fairly basic as dancers
Idk why people make such a big deal out of someone having previous dance experience, like ( OMG THEY DANCED AT THEIR WEDDING!!!! THEY HAVE PREVIOUS DANCE EXPERIENCE SO THEY SO BE BEATIN or something ) I dont really care…. Jennifer Grey, Po thang seems like e health disaster so i aint callin her the next Nicole or Mya. Idk bout Brandy but i dont really care lol. 🙂
@Zack – Exactly. That was kind of the point of this post – at this point, so many people are “reaching” to predict a winner, because there really isn’t a clear one this season, and so they’re trying to point fingers at anyone who might have even the TINIEST bit of dance experience…so we thought we’d show everyone how this alleged “experience” that some of these stars supposedly have means absolutely nothing. And if you thought this set of videos was bad…ooh wee, just wait until the second set. I’m beginning to wonder how some of these stars even manage to walk properly!
I think this might be the first where NO ONE can complain that ANYONE has an unfair advantage. I think everyone is at the same level. Of course, we have to wait for part 2. LOL. Great articles as always.
Thanks and ROFL at Courtney’s post. lol 🙂
It’s not the lack of dance experience, all of these people are okay to mediocre to awful. That’s what I’m going to bitch about this season. I want to see GOOD dancing, and I doubt we’re going to get Nicole’s level with this bunch. If I gotta watch crappy dancing, can’t we at least get some eyecandy?
“If I gotta watch crappy dancing, can’t we at least get some eyecandy?”
Amen Andie!!! At least we have the Pros (minus Edyta)
Yes, we have the Pros by default. 🙂 I’m still lamenting over the misguied non-casting of Roberto Martinez from the Bachelorette. One of the “finest” finds in that franchise, and he can friggin dance. (:
The “ringer” talk about Jennifer has nothing to do with Derek or Dirty Dancing. It has to do with Jennifer Grey. She’s born to dance. Google her father and find out who he is. She’s been studying dance since she could walk, it’s in her blood. I dont think she’ll win or be in the finals because of her age…. but that doesn’t mean she isn’t a ringer.
We also have to keep in mind that dancing count for about 50 – 65% of the votes + scores. You also have to give us something extra and make people pick up the phone and vote.
Guest on Jennifer: ” I dont think she’ll win or be in the finals because of her age…. but that doesn’t mean she isn’t a ringer.”
I wouldn’t count on Jennifer’s age being a factor. Look at Donny Osmond. He was 50 I believe when he and Kym won last year.
@Guest – Believe me, having a parent who’s a dancer doesn’t mean you’ve inherited their dance genes. 🙂 I come from a family of dancers but not all of my siblings can do what our parents did.
Some of last season’s dancers had extensive dance lessons, but not all of them were able to translate that on the dance floor.
Actually, Guest, being a “ringer” absolutely is affected by her age. Ringer, by the very definition that we use, means someone guaranteed to end up in the final, either because they are trained dancers or because they have a huge fanbase that can’t be beat. You even admit that it’s unlikely she’ll be in the finals due to her age – hence, she’s can’t be a ringer. Any more than Florence Henderson is a ringer. The odds of a 50 year old beating the 30 year old Brandy are astronomical. Oh, and we have a post coming up to support that theory. There’s MATH involved. 🙂
Vogue – one thing that continually surprises me is people’s general lack of understand of the phenomenon that is the Osmonds. These people have a fanbase like you wouldn’t believe. Marie was a HORRIBLE dancer and she beat out Jennie Garth on the strength of their fanbase. Donny’s is even larger. I knew going in he would win. Jennifer does NOT, IMO, have that same sort of loyal (read: crazy) fanbase.
Very true Heidi. But, she’s going to be a “sentimental” fave for sure. In fact, Jennifer might be one of the most sentimental favorite contestants they’ve ever had. (I have a feeling I’ll be torn between Brandy and Maks and Derek and Jennifer all season)
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