DWTS Celebrities: “What do you mean, I’m a Ringer?” Part 3
This is the 3rd and final part of the series where I take a look at the partners the pros have had and their “ringer” status. Part 1 discusses how I define a ringer – you can find it here —> I’m a Ringer?? Part 2 discusses the female pros and their partners and how I labeled them – I think it’s pretty clear that they’ve not been quite as blessed as the men. Reasons for that should be self evident – female celebrities are more likely to have some sort of dance experience, even if it is taking ballet or tap as a child. NOTE: This was mostly written before the pairings were announced for Season 14 – those pairings certainly change the game for lots of pros. Lots of potential ringers on this season.
I strongly recommend you read the first two parts before you comment – I don’t want to have to reiterate everything I wrote MONTHS ago. 🙂 Also, be wise and don’t complain about the length, admit that you didn’t read it all, and then argue with me – that will just earn you scorn and an eye roll. I know this is long – I considered breaking it into two parts, but then I figured it’s still long in two parts. People will either be interested or they won’t. :::shrug::: Also take note that I, personally, don’t care about ringers themselves. I think a season without them is deadly. What I DO care about is hypocrisy, revisionist history and the fairy tales that some like to spread about who has had ringers and who hasn’t.
From where I sit, there are two types of ringers – and then there’s just being blessed. Fanbase ringer (ie. Donny Osmond, etc.) or Experience Ringer (Mel B, Nicole, Sabrina, etc.), and lucky get (Lalia, Brooke, Gilles, JR). Just because someone happens to be a great dancer doesn’t mean they are a ringer. When someone is blessed with a partner who can dance, it doesn’t mean they were handed a ringer. That particular argument is so illogical that it’s hard for me to take seriously. If they actually seriously auditioned people to be on this show by making them dance with a pro for an hour or two, it would be understandable. But they don’t stand people in a room with a pro dancer and then say, “wow, she’s got some moves, let’s give her to Maks” or “she sucks, lets give her to Tony.” It doesn’t work that way. If it did, they wouldn’t be able to get people on the show. And can you imagine a pro like Tony sticking around if that was the approach they took?
As it happens, and as many people connected to the show have reiterated, the process of how a pro gets a celebrity often has to do with height, personality, looks, chemistry and the cast as a whole…and this becomes obvious as the show progresses. They are actually quite good at matching people up. I would imagine they give this a lot of consideration as it impacts, or has the potential to impact, ratings. You’re going to try to avoid having a bunch of pairings that make people go “eeewww” or get seriously pissed off. I think you need to limit that to one couple per season. Can you imagine what it would be like for every pro on a season to have a partnership similar to that of Hope and Maks?? I would want to stab my eyes out with a fork if they were ALL like that and there was no Carson/Anna or David/Kym. Seriously – think about it. So, it may be good to have ONE Maks/Hope – gives people (me and Courtney) something to talk about, rant about, get passionate about, etc. (This is separate from a discussion of whether Maks finally went too far or not – I don’t think that’s what the producers intended.)
Let’s look at Season 6, for example. People would point to Shannon Elizabeth and say, “She’s too tall for Derek” – but she got him as a partner anyway, even though she is taller than him when she wears a certain heel on her shoe. Barefoot, she’s an inch shorter. So, why did Derek get her and not one of the taller guys?? Well, as we’ve seen through the past many seasons, Derek tends to get the older than him, needier (that’s not pejorative in this instance), very beautiful women. That’s not ALWAYS the case, but it often has been. They either look beautiful together or they mesh well on a personality level (obviously Shannon did both) or they have the potential to create fireworks. But not only do they have to consider the pro and the celeb when they give a pro a partner, they also have to look at who signs on to the season as a whole. Who else was on Season 6, in terms of female celebrities?? Kristi, Priscilla, Monica, Marlee, Marissa…all rather distinctive “types” in one way or another.
Monica Seles is 5’10” tall, so she can’t go to Louis, Mark or Derek. That leaves Tony and Jonathan, of the male pros who were on that season; she went with Jon. Priscilla and Marlee are both older, significantly older than the 22 year old Derek and the 21 year old Mark were at the time, so it’s likely that they go with pros who are slightly older, or who appear older, than Derek and Mark; so they are partnered with Louis and Fabian, respectively. That leaves Shannon, Kristi and Marissa for Tony, Derek and Mark. So why did Shannon go to Derek and not Tony? Since it seems to me the “obvious” pairings based on height would be Mark/Marissa, Derek/Kristi and Tony/Shannon, why didn’t it happen that way? Well, I’m just guessing, but I would bet there is a personality factor at play here. I think they were hoping for the Derek/Shannon showmance angel. That pairing then seems a bit obvious to me, since Tony is married and Mark really is too short for her. That leaves Mark and Tony and Kristi and Marissa; again, it seems like the resulting pairings should have been reversed. So, what gives?? Honestly, I have no idea. I figure there is some method to the madness that isn’t always obvious. I’m inclined to think that Marissa lived in NYC, which was convenient for Tony since his family lives there as well. And that leaves Mark with Kristi.
In any case, you can probably do that little exercise for every season of the show, which would make a lot more sense than just whining about how Derek always gets the dancers – when in reality, that honor goes to Maks. 🙂 Of course, none of the above takes into account the HUGE factor that certain celebrities can request and receive the professional dancer of their choice. The producers have come right out and said that Derek and Maks get requested. Through various sources (including the celebs themselves), we know what Derek, Mark and Maks have all been requested by celebrities they’ve danced with. Nicole, Jennifer, Ricki, Kirsti Alley, Erin…just a few of the celebs who have put in requests. I also think (but don’t actually know) that Lil’ Kim requested Derek. Chelsea said she requested Mark, and I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that Kristi Y asked for him after Sabrina’s season – but I don’t know that for certain. This is a factor that you just can’t ignore – it has a huge impact on the rest of the pairings for a given season. If Nicole asks for Derek and Erin asks for Maks…well what are you going to do?? Say no? Especially since, at that point Derek had had NO ringers and had only won one time. What is the rationale? “Oh, sorry Nicole, we’re going to pair you with Tony cuz he’s had a run of crappy partners and we psychically know that you’re going to be fabulous and it’s his turn to win.” Hate to break it to you, but they don’t CARE if Tony has never won. They care about getting good/controvertial/exciting celebrities on their show and if it means promising Derek or Maks, that’s what they’re going to do. For all we know, Kate asked for Tony.
But that’s slightly off topic. Only slightly. The subject is and always has been the silly tendency of fans to point and scream ringer at anyone who is partnered with Derek, crying that he is favored by the producers. I would argue (especially after last season) that Derek is certainly popular and they want him to stay, but Maks is favored just as much as Derek is. Why? Well, Maks threw a tantrum of epic proportions and is back on the show (thanks to Melissa??). Edyta?? Not so much. She was all signed up for a season and then something went down. Bye bye Edyta. Rumor was that Kym asked for more money and they had her sit out for a season. But Maks gets a pass. Why? Ratings win – who cares if Maks came out looking worse to a lot of people, it got people talking. The ratings didn’t go up, compared to the previous season, but people were talking. But I digress…let’s really take at who has danced with who over the course of 13 seasons:
And in case you need a reminder on how I’ve defined and ranked ringers:
(the green shading is the person who won that season)
I’m now going to engage my psychic abilities (heh) and wait for the cries of “You didn’t make Ricki a ringer!!” – you’re right, because she wasn’t. If I make her a ringer, I have to make Brandy a ringer as well. Learning a dance or two for a movie doesn’t cut it, especially not when the dancing is not even as good as many people do in clubs on a regular basis (sorry Ricki). Brandy even learned to waltz! But in a movie, where you get many many takes to get it right and you can “fake it till you make it” – it hardly counts. Unless we’re talking Step Up or Cobu, of course. 🙂 And it’s a slippery slope; if I make Ricki and Brandy ringers, I kinda have to make Debi Mazar a ringer for her string of appearances as a hip hop girl in Madonna videos. But, as I discussed in an earlier chapter, I try to balance out past experience with age. I didn’t make Florence Henderson a ringer, for example, for her Broadway experience because it was so many, many years ago, although I did make Marissa a low level one for lots of Broadway experience – *recent* experience. You’ll note that I did make Jennifer a ringer – but because of her fanbase, not her experience. Same as Ricki and Brandy – it was a movie and it was 25 years ago. Her fanbase isn’t probably the size and right demo as that of Donny Osmond, but it’s still significant when compared with other people on her season.
Psychic abilities again – “But..but…Jennifer went to performing arts high school!!” Guess what? So did Brandy. I imagine they aren’t the only two. At least in Jennifer’s case it was more than 30 years ago. Like childhood ballet, I just don’t think it counts. If we start counting stuff like that, ALL the women will be ringers. I took lots of dance classes as a kid. Am I a ringer?? LOL. Right.
I wavered back and forth many, many times on whether or not Hope was a fanbase ringer…and in hindsight I wonder about Rob Kardashian as well…finally I made the deduction (using the evil hindsight) that Hope shouldn’t have stayed nearly as long as she did and she wouldn’t have, if not for fanbase (and some help from the judges). She’s a half a ringer, I guess. 🙂 I will say, I also wavered a good bit on Marissa, but gave in when I saw that she was on Broadway for a few years in two different shows (Hairspray and Grease). The difference between a movie and a live broadway show are obvious – in a movie you can do 50 takes to get it right. Broadway? You best know how to dance. Or do THE dance, in any case. Broadway folks are much more likely to be good with choreography.
Now, when I look at all the male pros and their many partners, one thing immediately strikes me: Maks, Tony, Mark and Derek have been VERY blessed when it comes to partners. ALL of them. But Derek isn’t at the top of that list. He’s had two ringers – Nicole and Jennifer (and both asked for him) – and he’s been blessed with Brooke, Lil’ Kim, Ricki and Jennie. While I loved his partnerships with both Joanna and Shannon, if you watch their dances back you realize that Derek is very clever at hiding weaknesses; neither woman was a fantastic dancer although they did well enough and stuck around for a while. Joanna’s latin dances, in particular, all had a sameness about them, mainly because I think her range of movement was pretty limited. She stuck around because of Derek and because there were worse people on that season. But all people seem to remember is that Futuristic Paso (which was brilliant) and seem to think she was a “dancer” – nope, a model. And that dance turned out brilliant because Derek shadowed Joanna the whole time. The producers indicated as much during the “Top 10 Dances” deal in a later season. So, each pro works with what they have and there is only so much they can do – but Derek has found a way to be rather clever about it.
What about Maks?? Because he’s never won, does that mean none of his partners were ringers?? By my count he’s had 4.5 ringers and he was very blessed with Lalia Ali, Brandy, and Misty May. Bad luck about Misty May. Hell, the ONLY partner he’s had that was downright BAD was Denise Richards (well, and Hope, but he did take her much farther than she should have gone). But really, is 7 very good to great partners out of 11 seasons anything to complain about?? Hell no! And yet… We could debate forever why he hasn’t won with those partners, but it’s usually a case (IMO) of better partnerships in a given season beating him not necessarily on dancing, but on personality. Mel B and Lalia Ali spring to mind. They got beat by Helio/Julianne, and Apolo/Julianne – two powerhouse couples with personality to spare, and plenty of ability. It sucks – but it’s not Derek’s fault. 🙂 As for Erin? Well, that was a ringerful season and she was the minor one of the group composed of her, Nicole and Evan.
Mark? Has had three ringers of varying degrees, one of which was probably the only person (or one of two) in the history of the show who was guaranteed to win based just on her name being announced. Kristi, that is. 🙂 Shawn came close to that level of combination of training and fanbase, but not quite to Kristi’s level. Shawn and Kristi are the Olympians who have fanbases that closely align with the DWTS demo; Shawn’s skews a good bit younger, though, but those kids will vote with scary passion. 🙂 He was blessed with Chelsea and Kristin, of course. Doesn’t matter that Kristin got eliminated early, she was still a good partner for him to get. I see lots of complaining about Melissa Joan Hart and Shannon Doherty; hate to break it to those complainers, but those two ladies are no different on paper than Jennie Garth and Shannon Elizabeth. How far each of them went in a given season has to do with a huge combination of factors including who else is on a given season, personality and chemistry with their partner. It does NOT mean that Mark paid some special dues that Derek didn’t. Derek just paid them earlier.
What about poor, poor downtrodden Tony? Yes, I am being sarcastic. 🙂 Tony has been given two moderate ringers…but at least three other dancers with a high degree of potential. He just couldn’t do anything with them. Chynna? Audrina?? Stacey?? All awesome dancers. Yes, he had Jane and Susan who were both older, but they also weren’t crappy dancers. Of course, Tony also had two problem children in Wendy and Kate – but who else are you going to pair those two with?? Maks would have killed Kate and I think Wendy was too tall and built for anyone else. Besides, Maks had to have Erin and Kirstie those seasons – poor guy. 😉 In any case, Tony is a bit of a victim of the pretty girl who can dance but isn’t really that memorable syndrome. It’s not enough to be a great dancer on this show – you gotta have the full package, as we’ve said numerous times.
As for the rest of the guys….they’ve all had good and bad partners, but it’s also rather clear that they aren’t the go-to guys when it comes to the draws for the show. As much as I like most of them. But even Dmitry has gotten (or almost gotten) three good partners on his three seasons. One was a huge ringer (Mya), one was a good dancer sans fanbase and the third wasn’t a good dancer…but she was also a last minute replacement for someone who WAS (supposedly) a good dancer. Louis has had some interesting partners…no one amazing, but he’s also the shortest pro connected to the show, so what are you going to do? Alec got a pretty Olympian, Toni Braxton and he won with Kelly Monaco – his main complaint would likely be that they didn’t use him enough. Really, if you want to feel sorry for a pro, give it up for Jonathan. He’s had a long list of…not great partners, but even he had a ringer in Marie Osmond. She was around for weeks longer than she should have been.
So, why the hue and cry about Derek and his partners? Well, I have a few theories. One is – he’s damn good. He can take a Joanna Krupa to the semi-finals when similar dancers paired with Tony or Mark get eliminated much earlier – even if they are better dancers. Take Audrina for example – bigger fanbase than Joanna, better dancer than Joanna. So what happened? Same question regarding Chynna. But even still – Maks has had more ringers than Derek and has had as many partners who were just good dancers – has he not won because Derek got all the good partners?? That’s clearly not the case. And it’s not like he’s always an early exit, either. I think the reasons for his not winning are varied and complex – he’s certainly had worthy partners. I think you would have to analyze every season on a season by season basis to figure it out. I already mentioned his seasons with Lalia and Mel B. Then there’s Erin who was on a ringer-ful season. Kirstie? Well, she took second place, but she was not the dancer that Hines was – it’s even arguable that she should have gotten second, but she is extremely popular – she beat out better dancers, yet I heard no complaining. Brandy? Well, Brandy’s problem was that there was a very noticeable fade into the wood work during the semi-finals. She was up against three people who were powerhouses for different reasons and she just didn’t stand out. You could almost see that one coming-in fact, I think Courtney and I did see it coming. 🙂 Why does this happen?? Well, that’s a good question and not an easy one to answer. You really have to work to not fade into the woodwork against the joyful Disney kid, the movie icon and the political hot potato. No easy task.
So what about Season 14?? Based on all that I outlined above, who has the ringer(s) this season? Or does it not matter since it isn’t Derek? Once again, the only complaining I see on twitter is that Derek got the young beautiful partner “again”. So, are people so easily brainwashed into thinking things that are clearly not true?? Because, by my rough guess (since I haven’t researched it…yet), Maks has a fanbase ringer of questionable level, Kym may have a fanbase ringer, Mark might have an experience ringer of a lower level, Chelsie has an experience ringer of a lower level…hell, Tristan might even have a fanbase ringer!! So you tell me – I dare you. 🙂 Who are the ringers this season??
wow Heidi….this blew me away!!! great post…i agree…it is not enough to have a ringer of any level…you have to have the whole package…or you are out of there..ringer or not…a clever and talented pro with a creative choreo…helps too… this season… “does it not matter since it isn’t Derek?” – frankly…it doesn’t seem to matter…it matters that Derek got the pretty young girl AGAIN!!! if i were Jen Grey or Ricki Lake i would love the compliment… 😀 MY ringers this season are Melissa – a fanbase ringer and i think a, at least good dancer, who has done Broadway, Donald- with a huge fan base and the likability factor, and Jaleel – also fanbase ringer and a good partner…the jury is still out on Jack…
Yeah, I think you’re right – Tristan, Maks, Kym, and to some extent, Peta have fanbase ringers this time around. I think that Tristan has the “fanbase ringer-est” (I know, that’s not really a word) 😉 of the bunch. I don’t think there are any experience ringers this time around… all I can say is, COME ON, MARCH 19th! 😀
Amen and applauds, Miss Heidi! I knew you wouldn’t disappoint with your 3rd ringer installment. I love how you brought up how weight, personality, height, etc can play a factor when TPTB pair up the celebrities with the pros….and yes, even the the requests from the celebritites themselves. I can definitely see hat they really care about is getting good/controvertial/exciting celebrities on their show and if it means promising Derek or Maks to them, so be it.
Excellent graphs! It shows that almost all of the pros have had a ringer in some way.
Anyway, I wish people would stop screaming that Derek is the only one to get a ringer when it’s not true. Whether you like him or not, why not just accept he’s good at teaching and what he does.
I also do not look at Ricki being a ringer or Maria as one.
Excellent Heidi!!!!!
Wow, great post. Not sure I understood all of it, but an interesting read non-the-less.
I think you should do a post that makes people claim ringer or not NOW on this season. If you didn’t say ringer (with a plausible justification), you can’t claim it with 20-20 hindsight in May….
Apparently the true definition of a ringer is anyone partnered with Derek! 😉 LOL JUST KIDDING! (cue the howls of protest!) But seriously folks, I wouldn’t curse my enemy with Kate or Hope. Kate made me want to stab myself in the eye with an ice pick! Did I mention this post is too long? 😉 😉 Great job Heidi!
I agree with your comment about Derek. I think he’s SO good that he makes all of his partners look better than they might be. I loved Ricki but I really don’t think she would have gotten as far as she did with a different pro guiding her.
I only call ringer when I think it’s really blatant (Mya – who still didn’t win), but if I was forced to pick one for Season 14 (before it even starts), I’d pick Jaleel. He seems to be really popular and does have some moves. But once again, being a ringer doesn’t necessarily mean you’re going to win.
Great post! Very interesting.
Priscilla asked for Louis. I am guessing Fabian’s teaching ability nd background made him a good teacher for Marlee. Too bad they never brought him back. He is more interesting personality wise than Tony.
On paper, Mark had really good partners and honestly better than Derek. Funny how he escapes all the ringer or favoritism talk. Maybe because his two wins were so early with the biggest ringers Kristi and Shawn. He also did not go far with types Derek succeeded with.
I think people are just lazy. It is easier to say Tony and Maks deserve to win but not really think and see, wow, they had good chances. Or say Derek always gets good partners and ignore that he had partners with smaller fan bases, older, etc.
I am glad you mentioned luck. Luck worked for Cheryl, Derek and Karina with Gilles, Brooke and JR. But bad luck worked against Maks with Mel. He did not help matters with that bad freestyle but Julianne rode that popularity with Apolo and Helio’s charm to a win. Then Tony up agains Drew and a popular footballer. Now again, that freestyle did not help. same with that awful freestyle with Melissa. I guess I could say the were really screwed if they had good freestyles. Kym lost twice with good freestyles (Joey and Warren). But they did not help matters which also seems to get lost at times when people say it is Tony and Maks turn.
Great post as always P.Heidi.
Speaking of season 6. Monica Seles is Serbian from Croatia and Tony from Kosovo. DWTS wants drama but not that kind of drama. I heard Marissa was a replacement for a celeb who had totally forgotten she had said yes to dwts and had made other plans.
And I’ll definitely wont say POOR TONY. True Tony had Wendy… but people forget that it was his wife who chose her. I guess she wasn’t happy he was seen smooching Audrina a season before. :)))
I do think/believe that DWTS partnering is not as complicated as us fans make it seem.
Last season Maks wanted Hope, you cant say POOR MAKS.
This season, Gavin asked for Karina. And Martina said that she knew Tony and wanted Tony. It’s not TPTB fault if they don’t go far.
Speaking of Derek and his “ringers”… I don’t think he gets autonomic ringers. I do, however, believe he has a small advantage. The judges never ever seem to ridicule his partners, they encourage them instead. I cant imagine Ricki would have gotten for the same samba if her partner was someone else. It creates a better partnership and he doesn’t have to build them up allover again. They used the same tactic with Rob and at the end he got it.
As far as this season goes. Sherri and Donald will go far IMO. The rest is somewhat even and it will depend on how they do on week by week bases.
*Automatic not autonomic. Can I blame autocorrect?
Yer aiming for the buttons, jimmbboe, but yer missin’ cuz the Big Lebowski is on my teevee makin’ me giggle. 🙂
That carpet really tied the room together, man.
I’m tempted to call Roshon a ringer, Sally – there’s an awful lot of video of him dancing out there. And lord knows if Nicole’s chest pumps qualify, as does a whole bunch of boy band/girl band people, then why wouldn’t he?? It’s almost like the male/female celebrity double standard is a reflex.
That’s an interesting idea, SueB, but people would still try to get away with calling ringer in hindsight anyway. Joanna is the most prominent example. People were gleeful when Derek got her….then at the end of the season claimed that ballet up to the age of 11 made her a ringer.
Boy, Jennifer, you remember it differently than me. Nicole got ridiculed by Len for WEEKS before finally getting a realistic score from him. They were also EXTREMELY hard on Shannon and Len actually yelled at Brooke, saying that Carrie Ann called her almost as good as a professional so he was going to grade her like one – which was one of the single most ridiculous things I’ve ever heard on DWTS – and proceeded to tear her tango (or was it the Paso) to shreds.
And some of the things that were said to Lil’ Kim?? Well, luckily she took most of it as a compliment. 🙂 I’m not sure I would have. It’s very easy to look at another partnership and claim they get it easy (that’s what fans DO)- I thought they were super easy on Kirstie and extremely hard on Ralph. I think that’s part of Maks’ problem last season actually – they were SO nice to Hope, over scoring her, wanting her to stay longer than Nancy, that when they finally started scoring her how she should be scored that both Hope and Maks had whiplash and acted out. Do I think that excuses Maks’ behavior? No, but it does go a long way to explain it. Same thing happened with Mark and Bristol. It happened to Derek too, except that Derek learned that that’s part of the game and I’m not sure the other men have figured that out yet. Remember Derek’s little fit in the confessional with Shannon?? He sure didn’t do that because the judges were easy on her.
Yes. ITA that they were too kind to Kirstie and too hard on Ralph… But Derek wasn’t on that season. 🙂
Yes, Nicole got some not so kind comments from Len. But CAI and Bruno had her back. I remember CAI’s comment after Nicole’s QS.
Yes, Shannon got some not so nice comments about her hips…. and Derek had a meldown. 🙂
How they treated Ralph was totally out of line and inappropriate. Wasn’t there a comment about wearing a diaper or something?
Too kind to Kirstie. You ain’t a kidding.
And Nicole was also the brunt of some unkind words as well. Sometimes I wonder why celebs sign up for this….
You’re oversimplifying Jennifer. So I will too. 🙂 Derek has had as much cause for a meltdown as maks has (which is really none) and yet he’s only done it once, 7 seasons ago. Now, remind me…how long since Maks has done it? And how long has he had to learn what this show is about?? 🙂
Really, that’s what we’re talking about here – all the pros should know by now how this show works and should prepare their partners for it.
“Really, that’s what we’re talking about here – all the pros should know by now how this show works and should prepare their partners for it.”
I approve this message. 🙂
I just wish judges didn’t have the power to sway or manipulate voters. Is that too much to ask? YEP!!!
Ah yes, I’d forgotten about Roshon….. He does bill himself as a dancer, doesn’t he? OK, I’m on board with that – we have 1 experience ringer this season. I also forgot about Sherri, who’s been practicing with Val for a couple of years now… 😉 😉 😉 😉
Roshon is this seasons ringer. I am looking forward to seeing what Chelsie can d choreography wise. I have not been that impressed though her ballroom dances are better than Lacey.
I think it was Sharon Osbourne paired with Tony and Marissa was the last minute replacement.
I think in end every pro has had a partner who had it rough. The difference between Mark, Maks and Derek is that for Derek lost it once. He admitted it and it was also on his second season. Since then? Never. He matured. While Mark and Maks have done it numerous times, never admitted or owned their behavior and done in later seasons.
Also Ricki was called out for her dancing but I think being paired with Derek, she did not get enough credit for things she did well. Most just said it was Derek covering her up well or judges fawning when she actually had strong technique. Also Derek listens to the judges. He knows what the judges want so I do not think it is being the favorite. He does it well. He knows what works on this show and does it better. Maybe that is what makes them all look like ringers. When he does things a bit outside what Len wants, he knows it. He expects it. Unlike Mark who got upset.
I do not know why people are so upset about ringers. Few actually win and being a fan base ringer is more important. And the two biggest, Donny And Kristi, were not his partners.
For me:
A ringer is someone who at some point in their lives were trained to dance and move. A partner celeb can also be a ringer, if they do dance to a certain level of performance to entertain the crowds for a living prior. Not only they are used to move, but they get unfair advantage for being much easier to choreograph. These ringers can pick up and learn choreography much faster and execute it w precisions better than the others.While some pros have to start from the scratch and teach their partners every basic steps and choreography and proper executions, some pros dancing w ringers only have to worry more on their choreography.
I consider a person a ringer if they had some sort of training in any form of dances. Some say it is not ballroom….but a dancer will always be a dancer and much easier to adapt and make the transitions. They already have better coordination and learning skills on top of their familiarity w choreography. Ballet, hip hop, tap dancing, figure skating, dancing boy bands, broadway dancing are still dancing.
A person w natural ability is not a ringer imo. Sure they have better coordination, but they still start from the scratch learning every basic steps and choreography thrown into them. Pros are still spending a great deal of time teaching them the steps and choreography. But once they get it, they get it good! Gilles, JR, and Emmitt are great examples of this.
My biggest ringers are: Evan, Kristi, Jennifer, Nicole, Sabrina,Mya, Melissa, Mel B, Brandy,Joey, Lance, Mario and others who have danced for a living before dwts.
YES! I’ve been waiting for this one to come out especially since it deals with the women of DWTS. And I 100% agree with you on Brandy not being a ringer. As a big fan of hers, I cannot recall one music video where she actually danced. She swayed and waved her arms maybe in the early ones but in videos like “Full Moon” “The Boy is Mine” “Have You Ever?” and “What About Us?” had ZERO dancing. So I guess Maks certainly was blessed with a natural ability dancer.
As for the Derek “ringer” cries, I don’t know how a person can read an article like this in its entirety as you mentioned and not realize that that’s bologna. I remember when Bristol was FINALLY scored appropriately and Mark went ballistic (Talk about spastic behavior). But Mark hawked me off (I believe) in Season 10 when Shannen was eliminated and he complained about Derek getting “the good girls” boy Nicole sure seemed to bring out a lot of hate. She tends to do that in both the music world and DWTS world. My Dear Sweet Nicole 🙂
Great article and thanks for telling it like it is!
THANK YOU HEIDI! This so perfectly and logically explains that TPTB have given each male pro a great potential partner that they could win with … and it’s more often the case that the male pros have been given more than one great partner to work with. I am so sick and tired that people degrade Derek’s skills and abilities because he “always gets the ringers”. People can’t seem to let themselves admit that he’s just so good at what he does. Although, I think Derek is the best male pro/teacher/choreographer on the show… most of the male pros are good at what they do, as well. Maks has gotten SO MANY great partners, but because he’s never won people tend to forget he had a bunch of potential winners. Mark also somehow lucked out and got 2 very popular Olympians and won with them. So what if both Maks and Mark got early outs and Derek never has… that doesn’t mean that Derek always got the great dancers. It means that he was just the best at working with what he got. It seems Mark needs someone with a strong dance/performance background to do well on the show. Maks looks like he needs somebody who has past dance/performing experiences or is very well-known to go far. On the other hand, Derek took a model to the MBT, a virtual unknown to the semis, and an ex-con to the qtr-finals (love lil kim though!). That guy just has a special gift and knows how to play the game.
Interesting post, Heidi. Thanks for laying it all out. I guess I should stop feeling bad for Tony now. He really has had his chances, but he just hasn’t capitalized on them. In addition to the factors you’ve mentioned, I think both he and Maks will always have problems in the final when up against Derek (or Louis) because choreography is simply not a real strong point for either of them. So their dances don’t have that Wow! factor (and Maks’s often has the “What the heck?” factor) to give them the bonus points that personality issues (on both the pro and star sides) may make necessary.
Elara: Melissa has NOT appeared on Broadway. She was in an off-Broadway PLAY (no music, no dancing) and toured as Ma in a musical version of “Little House on the Prairie”. Some choreography doubtless required, but I’m fairly certain the dance required was nothing along the lines of ballet, jazz, or ballroom. And I doubt Ma does much of the dancing anyhow.
Melissa: I’ve wished season after season that they’d bring Fabian back. I thought he did an excellent job with Marlee and I would love to see what he’d be able to do with another celebrity.
Belski: I took ballet for years as a kid and tap and jazz as an adult. I assure you, none of my teachers would *ever* call me a dancer. I’m living proof that you can have years of lessons and still not be very good. What I *can* do, because I also act, is give enough of a performance to make it look as though I’m a better dancer than I am. But if I’m in a group with real dancers, they’ll outshine me every time. Yes, I’d have advantage of having learned choreography before. My utter lack of rhythm and talent pretty much balances that out, though. In other words, dance training in the past does not necessarily a ringer make.
Bring on the ringers! I love the variety, and I sure love to watch any of the pros really be able go all out and do their thing! Of course I love to watch a complete non dancer learn to dance.
As far as “unfair” advantage, that perspective really bothers me (in my opinion). My mama never told me life was fair!!! Everyone has some kind of advantage and some kind of disadvantage. It’s what you do with those.
Loved the whole topic and reading all that Heidi explained!
Can’t wait til next Monday!
Very interesting post…and even more interesting comments. I usually stay out of these types of posts, because everyone has their own ideas about what we(I’m not using the “royal we”, just the “collective we”) see on reality television, and there isn’t any right or wrong opinion.
All of the pros are super talented dancers, otherwise they wouldn’t be there. And getting talented dancing celebs is always a surprise, in my opinion. You never know what’s going to transpire once the dance lessons begin. I think the pros have all gotten some really good dancers, and they’ve all gotten some real stinkers. And, Heidi, I agree if Maks had gotten Kate Gosselin, he’d now be sitting on death row awaiting execution. It’s a testament to Tony’s intestinal fortitude that he’s not, because as we say in the south, “she needed killin”. 🙂
To continue, it’s how the pros handle the judges, the critique, and their club footed celebs( I’m not forgetting fan bases ) that determine how far they get in a season. Some pros are better able to remain stoic no matter how they actually feel. Some are not. Maks will never keep his mouth shut. He’s just that type of person. You don’t need to wonder what he’s thinking, cause he’s gonna tell you. I think that’s why he’s my favorite. What you see is what you get. (What I see is another reason why he’s my favorite :))
What constitutes a ringer is subjective. Unlike most of you, I haven’t been watching since the beginning, I just started watching in Season 9, so I can’t comment on what went on before then. And until I actually see them dance I can’t comment on this season. It will make for some lively discussions, I’m sure…looking forward to it.
All I’ll just say is GREAT JOB Heidi! Thanks for these posts! It took me a while to read all three of them, but it’s an amazing job. You said things the way they are and I totally agree with everything you said!
Just because some pros never won the competition and some others won numerous times, that doesn’t mean that the firsts never had a ringer in their hands or the seconds had all the ringers! They all had their chances and maybe they should try to find and UNDERSTAND why they didn’t win and try to fix it than crying and complaining on the others!
Thanks Heidi. I completely agree with you. I thought both Maks and Mark had more pontentially good dancers than Derek. I believe Mark’s partners have all been young. Maks just kinda blew it with personality issues and okay choreography. Tony is just bland. I like Jonathan and I believe he was the who didnt get good partners. Derek is just an amazing dancer and choreographer. This is my first post. I’ve been enjoying reading you guys thank you very much
Like you, Heidi, I don’t have a problem with ringers on the show and I agree that almost all of the pros have had a ringer at one time or another.
I like Derek and think he has brought wonderful choreography over the seasonbs and has done a great job with all of his partners. However, maybe the reason why some people complain in regards to Derek is not that he gets all of the good celeb dancers, but that he’s the only pro never to have gotten a BAD dancer. If you were to flip the analysis and survey each pro’s dancing CLUNKERS, you would notice that Derek hasn’t had one yet. Even his lowest placing partner, Shannon Elizabeth, was still coordinated and had some natural dancing ability. Brooke and Joanna weren’t very well-known, but they were among the top 3 best dancers in their respective seasons.
And I am one who does believe you can predict in advance which celebs will be good at dancing and which ones will be bad before seeing them dance. Age, profession, personality, body language all give very strong hints as to how they will do and what their strengths and weaknesses will be. Of course, it’s not 100% accurate and there will always be a couple of celebs each season who surprise (or disappoint), but we can make pretty good educated guesses. And if we the audience can do that, you can bet the show’s producers and casting directors can as well.
Or, even if you want to say it’s impossible for them to tell the celebs’ dancing abilities, I’m sure that they can tell which celebs will have an advantage in terms of fanbase. For example, in Season 10, when Derek got Jennifer Grey and Tony got Audrina Patridge, it was pretty obvious that Jennifer’s fanbase was going to be bigger than Audrina’s. The show could have easily swapped Derek and Tony’s partners that season…in fact, it would have been more in accordance with their usual types…Tony with an older, more mature woman and Derek with a hot babe. However, they didn’t. Why not?
Again, I like Derek, but I am interested to see what would happen if he got a completely uncoordinated celeb with a small fanbase. Would he really do that much better with her than the other pros on the show?
I love that you’ve “classed” the ringers. Great job!
What I hate about the “ringer” thing though is that so much of it is either reactionary or revisionist. The one thing the show has proved is that winning comes down to a combination of multiple factors, not the least of which is a genuinely likeable personality. That’s where I think Derek has “plugged the gap” for some of his partners. I don’t know if Nicole would have been able to beat the awkwardly endearing Evan with any other partner, for instance.
#Cali…because Jennifer asked for Derek as a condition of doing the show.
@Cali
I think Joanna perfectly fits the category of bad dancer with a small fanbase. I would have never guessed Joanna make it to the final 4 based on other stars’ fanbases and ability. And if we’re talking BEFORE they danced, I STILL would not have assumed or “known” that Joanna would end up going far. In fact, I remember thinking “Oh boy, Derek’s got a model, well this is his chance to prove himself” and he did just that seeing that models don’t generally do well.
Oh Cali – you think that because someone went far they were a good dancer with a good fanbase?? That’s just the kind of myopic views that I was talking about. JOANNA, to name one. Most thought Lil’ Kim would be horrendous – that she wasn’t was a surprise.
As for Derek getting Jennifer and Audrina – again, I think maybe you need to read the whole post. Jennifer ASKED for Derek. The producers, if they want Jennifer on the show, are not going to say no. That would be stupid.
I say that it appears Derek has never gotten a bad dancer because he’s a great teacher. But he has gotten less than stellar dancers.
Yes, Nathan, there was much rejoicing in the land of people who think Derek gets the good dancers both when he got Joanna and when he got Lil’ Kim. Those same people turned around after those seasons were over and were crying about Derek getting the good dancers again. Quite ridiculous, really. And they prove the point that you don’t really know before the season starts AND that Derek is just that good. 🙂
See, I thought Joanna was a GOOD dancer, so therein partly lies the difference of our opinions.
“Oh Cali – you think that because someone went far they were a good dancer with a good fanbase??”
No, I actually don’t think that. Brooke and Joanna were good dancers who most likely had weak fanbases going in.
Joanna was not a good dancer compared to many. She was an okay dancer made to look very good with clever choreography.
Whoa! Did I do a Rip VanWinkle while watching Courtney’s 5 worst Foxtrots? When I nodded off, we hadn’t even begun Season 14 and now we’re casting Season 15? What did I miss?? Who won???
LOL Cidra!! My sentiments exactly.
Natalie, please stick to topic, ok? Thanks!
I agree with Princess Heidi that Joanna is not a good dancer. She’s just a very hard worker, and Derek covers up so much of her clunkiness with his wonderful choreography. She had such long limbs that never looked 100% coordinated to me during that season 😀 (Shannon too has tall girl awkwardness) As Heidi pointed out, all of Joanna’s latin dances were pretty much the same moves. Ricki too, she had excellent foot work, but her hips were stiff and she’s over 40 and I don’t think dancing comes naturally to her. Derek is just so so clever is showcasing what his partner can do best and hide their weaknesses that they look like good dancers. He was lucky that Jennie, lil’ Lim, and Brooke have natural talent.
Ringer post! I like experience ringers, because they give more exciting dances XD Season 12 and 13 were such a snooze without one good dancer. They also sort of motivate other contestants, so in a season with great dancers, the allover dance quality improves, imo. Thank you for putting this much work and writing all this, Princess!
Comment #8 from Melissa: “Kym lost twice with good freestyles (Joey and Warren)” I agree with this!! and felt bad for Kym. But it just proves that the really good pros get MBT(s) eventually! Unlike Maks who just keeps failing. But he still could win.
As for this season, I’m not sure about the fanbase ringers, but I’d categorize Roshon as Level 2 ringer, definitely. He’s limber and coordinated, so just those are gonna help lots, even if all he’s done is freestyling. He definitely has natural talent and I’m excited to see how much of a ballroom dancer can Chelsie make him to be. Too bad his attitude is not pleasant, at least for now.
Thanks, wiwin – and I agree with your assessment of Roshon, I think. About the attitude, also.