Dancing with the Stars Season 24, Week 5 – Manipulation Mayhem
Yes, I’m very late getting this done, but that’s what happens when you have a busy real life. 🙂
Anyway, as we discussed last week, there are many ways to manipulate this show and we’ve seen most all of them over the course of many seasons – mostly since Season 15 or so. These tactics include (but are not limited to):
- Packages (length, tone, fake shipping, fake or overblown fights, etc.)
- The Erin Interview (the questions the producers feed her to put people on the spot)
- Screen time (or lack thereof)
- Dance/music assignments
- Press
So, I understand that Val and Normani were on Access Hollywood Live for the SECOND time this past week – pretty rare. Especially considering that some couples haven’t been on at all. I recall many seasons being pissed that Derek and his partner were getting little press (Nastia, Marilu, etc) or little to no All Access time (Marilu) – Val has never had this problem, but they are on a quest to make him happen to this day. Thing is – DWTS PR is the one who sets up all those show appearances and it’s a very simple way to give one couple a leg up over the others. You all tell me, since I haven’t been paying attention, but which couples have been on Ellen, AH Live, E! and all the others. More importantly, who HASN’T been on any or many of those shows, eh?
Dance/music assignments – tell me honestly (hard for some of you Harmonizers, I understand) but do you REALLY think that Lindsay would CHOOSE to do a dance style that doesn’t go with the music?? Do you think Emma would voluntarily struggle with a music/dance combo instead of just picking music to go with her assigned style? Louis V seems to think that these women are that dumb and that it is their fault for having the wrong music for an assigned style. He was still blathering about it this past week. I think they are not the ones who are acting dumb in this instance. It’s been quite a few seasons now that the pros have several weeks of every season where they are given the song and dance style…and the two don’t always go together. It’s ridiculous to think that they would struggle intentionally instead of just picking the right music/style. They all know how to count, after all. I do find it interesting that the two hot guys who are likely getting the lion’s share of votes are the ones who seem to be having this issue. Again, I ask you – if there are others, tell me in the comments. I may have to start tallying this stuff. 🙂
We’ll cover the screen time again in a minute, but first – Erin. Do you think she is naturally obsessive about the “romance” angle that this show likes to take from time to time, or do you think the producers know that there are crazy shippers who obsess over it? Door number 2, monty. I think that a lot of the time it is more ratings driven than it is truly manipulative. Do you think they really wanted to help Noah Galloway stick around by featuring his proposal? Nah, they just love that shit (see Emma/Sasha, which I also loved because it was genuine). Conversely, the whole brouhaha over Nick and his pregnant wife was just over the top and I think he was likely 3rd place if not for that. But really, the only time the shipper shit annoys is when it’s so obviously fake – as in Meryl/Maks. And the massive attempts to start something with Alek/Emma. That’s annoying. Also kinda disgusting is the stealth cam they used on Kym and Robert. But I digress – fake shipping can be used by the couple with producer help to assist someone to the win like Meryl/Maks, but the whole Erin interview can be used to help someone (pity parties about traveling, etc) or hurt someone by denying them the screen time (Simone).
Packages are, IMO, the single most harmful thing they can do to a couple. They did a rather significant character assassination on Derek last season – do you really believe that a guy that has been hailed as the nicest guy on the show for many seasons now suddenly changes into the guy that we saw in packages last season? Not hardly. Motive? That should be obvious. Yes, Derek had Marilu who was 64 at the time, but she was in fantastic shape and she could definitely move, although she had issues performing on the live show. Even with all of their manipulative packages (she also was rarely on All Access, got little media and rarely did Erin interviews) he took her farther than anyone else would have – oldest woman ever to make quarter finals, I believe I read – not too shabby. When Derek talks about his packages in his blogs, you know it’s bad, because that dude is the most PC guy on the show. At the same time, Val was getting an edit that consistently portrayed him as a saint – not long after he got sued for fat shaming a young girl on Instagram. Same thing happened with Nastia – she was very upset by the edit she got because it played into a perception of her that she had been fighting her whole life. That’s bad for Nastia AND Derek not just in terms of the show, but in terms of it’s real world impact. I saw way too many comments about how Derek was “mean” to Marilu – yet Marilu never had anything but positive comments about Derek. This season, who are they doing it to? Simone, mainly. But question is why? Why do they care if Simone wins? I don’t really buy the argument that they don’t want a gymnast to win again – if they were worried about that they shouldn’t have invited her on the show. Seeing as how Normani has been getting the PR and the screen time, not to mention lots of time with Erin, good running order, etc., it seems they are helping Val again. Why, I don’t get. Ah…but as you’ll see below, Normani isn’t the only one getting assistance.
Back to screen time, you remember from last week that Normani was out in front. This week, I had a lot more data, thanks to m, Lisa C and Nick. I don’t have multiple times from each week but I do for several them. When I had more than one person’s data, I averaged them for each category and then ranked them based on that. I don’t have a lot of time to go into extensive detail on each week, but I think what I will do is give you the rankings for each week and save the full blown analysis for the end of the season. As with much of this stuff, we can’t really see the whole picture until the season is over – and even then it’s mostly conjecture. ALSO NOTE: There are quite a few flaws in the data that I have, which is to be expected when multiple people are doing the timing. As a result, and even without the flaws, this is NOT a scientific analysis but a general look at what people came up with. Even not being scientific, it is still instructive to a certain degree. I had to LOL at the troll claiming she wanted scientific analysis and evidence. You want that? Do it yourself…well, try, as it still won’t be scientific. That said, going forward, a few notes on how to do the timing so that there are smaller differences in the data:
- Leave the timer running when the judges are talking – that counts for the couple since they are the focus of the discussion.
- Don’t count the time when the couples are getting to Erin and Tom is talking about something else. Start counting as soon as the camera is back on the couple.
- Please count the pre-package or pre-commercial mugging time that couples get.
That’s all I can think of right now. 🙂
Anyway, the results of this were a tad shocking, even when not scientific. Here are the total times for each week and a grand total.
Is anyone truly shocked by Heather being in first place?? No, not me. They give her not great placement, but they make up for it with plenty of screen time, so I guess that’s a bit of balance…except when you add in the Julianne apology tour she gets every week. But it’s not who is getting the camera time that is shocking (I don’t want to hear Nancy fans complaining about her being hosed, either), it’s who ISN’T getting much of anything from this show, and that is unquestionably Simone. It’s shocking to me that for three of the five weeks she’s gotten the least screen time, and when she didn’t have the least amount of screen time, she’s still be in the bottom three in screen time. She’s only gotten ONE interview with Erin, LESS THAN people who have already been eliminated.
Conversely, Heather has been in the TOP 3 three of the five weeks and had an above average time every week but one.
The table above is more of an accounting of various parameters and no matter how you look at it, there are a privileged few, one person getting totally hosed and everyone else is kind of in the middle. Looking at just one parameter doesn’t really do it, you have to add it all together. Seems like Heather is way out in front and Simone is getting totally screwed.
BUT, the first five weeks are likely going to be different than the last five weeks for a few reasons. First, the producers are now seeing the trends in the voting and any other popularity metrics they might look at, so they know if previous pimping is working or if someone is failing. This will likely dictate how they treat the contestants going forward. Notice that David had below average times the first two week, but jumped into the top three in the last three weeks. I suspect we will see more of this as we go through the last five weeks of the season.
Of the people remaining, it seems that Heather, Normani, Nancy and Nick are faring the best, in that they more get Erin interviews most of the time, good PR, and they either usually have above average times OR they are never in the bottom three when it comes to time. All that said, at this point, there isn’t much instructive in these numbers unless you are Heather or Simone.
I don’t think than anyone can argue that Heather is being treated VERY well, while Simone is getting just totally hosed. Anyone? Anyone? In any case, as we go forward through the season we will see if this changes. We’ll also see if the producers are successful in what appears to be an attempt to make Simone a “shocking elimination”.
Okay, that’s all I have time for this week – we will go into more depth once the season is over, and if my suppliers keep giving me times to work with we’ll discuss weekly. Feel free to point out any instances of manipulation that you think you saw that I didn’t discuss here. I need all the help I can get – just don’t assume I will always agree. 😉
Great job as always! Thanks for the analysis.
Now that you mention it, I wonder what happened to Val’s lawsuit for fat shaming that downs syndrome girl? 6 million I believe it was.
I see heavy manipulation for a Normani/Val win.. yeah I know so he can have a back to back win.. just like Derek who did it twice though with no Pimpage from the producers.
Grrrr. Boooooo. Hiss on producer manipulations for Val. He doesn’t deserve the help. He needs to earn it. Plus he’s an egomaniac tool of a guy.
This week will be very interesting how the manipulations and judging will affect the voting because there are no terrible dancers left.
I would LOVE for Val to be the shocking boot! I didn’t say Normani because it’s really Val that I want to go home. Lol
I hope Rashad, Nancy, David and Simone really knock it out of the park tonight! Nick is growing on me too.
Even on access hollywood live when they were doing their DWTS analysis with melissa rycraft, they were commenting on how Nancy and Simone were struggling during rehearsals and they re-showed the negatives packages of them pouting and frustrated, looking like they were divas and bitches. Which is what I thought they did to Nastia. And they keep doing to Simone which I think is unfair to Sasha too.
Luckily, Melissa and the Access host think Rashad is going to win the Mirrorball, which is my pick too.
Poor Simone! The disrespect just to hand Val and Normani the trophy. Ridiculous!
Normani is not the only one being favorably manipulated and if that’s all you got out of my post you might want to read it again. Just saying.
Ugh I can’t believe I used to be a huge fan of his before I woke up to how arrogant he is
I wouldn’t mind if he went home
But I think it’ll be Nick or Heather I’m good if they go
I have a bad feeling if they want shocking they’ll send Nancy home
You just don’t trust this show after awhile
Oh I know I read it all. I just think Normani and Simone are similar so TPTB are doing everything in their power to single one out over the other. One needs the votes and the other they want to paint in a bad light or give less screen time etc.
Nick and Peta have gotten a lot of media exposure too. Probably trying to keep the bachelor nation interest alive.
Can someone tell me what week was Simone’s one Erin interview, mentioned above?
Love this show, as well as Erin and Tom, was really hoping it was on the up and up. Initially I think it was but is getting derailed somewhat. Val is a whiner i.e. Rumour. Maks is great but they broke him, Derek is a great choreographer and personality. Most of the women, Lindsay, Whitney, Emma, Sharna are superb dancers but quiet. I.e. no controversy. Who pulls the strings? Would be nice to have one show on the up and up, true and honest.
The shipping crap reached its height back in that All Star season with Val and Kelly Monaco ???? and just escalated from there. Some of those “shippers” truly go cray cray over this stuff and eat it up. As we’ve seen in the case of Maks and Meryl, the shipping works to get them votes enough to win-don’t get me wrong, she was a great dancer but we all know she was the biggest ringer the show has ever had, combined with the faux romance and boom, they got a trophy lol. Even in other cases, the fake shipping has helped to get couples to the finals-look at how many times Val got to the finals faking the love with his partners like Kelly and Janel lol.
Faux romances are a BIG tactic the producers rely on, I think, to grab the viewers attention and keep it there and they use particular pros who are willing to play the game and go along with it ?
Princess Heidi, one thing that has been bugging the crap out of me since last week is from David’s package. I notice last week that both Nancy and David mentioned that they are now the oldest contestants left. First, I can’t believe that was coinsidence. I’m sure that they were prompted to those observations. And David’s came with those shots of his back hurting and the observation that he might be the next to go. That was shown TWICE last Monday and now it’s been on repeat all week long as the “promo” for Team Dances Week! Along with some crap about the weakest link!
I kind of look at the commercials a different way, Colleen. Yes, they’ve been pointing out how old David is (and Nancy to a lesser extent), but this show’s main demo is their age and OLDER. I don’t see that as a negative. Most of the audience can relate to their aches and pains and are possibly amazed that they’re doing what they’re doing. David essentially got a free week of PR. So, something like that can be looked at both ways.
Alden, she had 23 seconds in week 1 – so, still not great and it was the shortest Erin time that week, and maybe ever.
The Bachelor franchise gets a ton of coverage regardless and it always wins it’s time slot so that is rather organic, IMO.
I think it was week 2 when Simone was given a strangely whiny-feeling package. I jumped out of my chair and yelled at the TV about why are they trying to Nastia her?
I guess I still don’t know why, but we can see for sure that they are.
Also was interesting to see the data for other Stars. Thanks to all who did research and writing.
I didn’t realize that Heather was getting the most screentime. Fascinating. Apparently, it didn’t help her much…
Poor Simone. I’m rooting for Nancy, but it’s ridiculous what they’re trying to do to Simone.
It’ll be interesting to see who TPTB shift the screentime to now that A) she’s gone and B) voter favorites are really starting to show up.
I only watched parts of tonight’s show, so this may have been consistent with all the contestants, but I only watched Nancy, David and Rashad’s entire performance and judges’ critiques. I thought it was interesting that Bruno commented about Nancy’s shoulders and about how they had “told her about the problem with her shoulders before.” Len and Tom also seemed to try to put Nancy on the spot about self-criticism, which I thought she handled well. Then, Carrie Ann tried to put David on the spot about “quitting” in the middle of the routine. I thought both David and Nancy handled their answers well and did not get trapped by the questions. It may be that the judges were picky with everyone, but it felt a little scripted or manipulated to me, an effort to get a verbal response from the contestants during the judges’ critiques.
I have not been paying attention to this next issue at all, but it occurred to me after I read this post. Is the show consistent about flashing the call-in numbers on screen after each dance? I’m in the show demographic and like most of my demographic, I vote by calling. Erin also seems to usually remind people to vote at the end of her interviews and the number is flashed on-screen. Is that happening when someone does not get an Erin interview?
Thanks for this post and for the work that was done to gather the data to compile it. This is a lot of work and much appreciated.
It is standard to put up the call in numbers and it normally happens. If they screw that up, you would see it all over this blog. 🙂
I have gotten sick of this being the Val show. He was so stupid tonite talking back to Len. They want him to win a navk to back like Derek. The show is all hes got. He will never go on to be a star like derek. TPTB should work on getting Derek and Mark back. I am no longer excited about watching the show like used to be.
Thanks @Princess Heidi–do you know when Simone’s time with Erin was in the episode? In week 1, they went right to her scores after the judges’ comments and then dismissed her and Sasha to the rest of the cast lineup, so Erin didn’t interview her then. I’m sure it is somewhere if someone flagged it, but I must be blind and can’t find it. You guys should get some serious recognition for pointing out the insidious manipulation on this show.
Speaking of call-in numbers, there have in instances, though, when the wrong call-in numbers have been given to the wrong contestants-like they’ve been switched around. It’s happened causing votes to go to different couples. Whether that’s accidental or not, I suppose one can draw their own conclusions….
This is just a fantastic post. Great job and thanks to all for the work. I watch a lot of reality tv and have been reading here for a long time so I thought it was pretty obvious to me when they were producing and manipulating. But some of these subtle things I didn’t notice at all. I think skipping the Erin interview might be the biggest one, Imo. That’s where personality and partnership bond are really highlighted and the couple straight promoted to viewers to vote for them. Also I think the general audience catches on to obvious manipulation and it can backfire, but like I said, I never noticed these subtle things making it far more underhanded by producers to me. Poor Simone!
Personally I want Heather to leave. With professional experience it is not fair to others and they are not being more difficult on her.
I also want Normani to leave because as with heather, in my opinion they both have attitudes and think that it is an easy win.
Also I don’t agree with the scores Normani is getting. They are trying to make her look good and I really don’t think she is. I have not been trained in ballroom dance, however I have been dancing my while life. I am by no means an expert, but I can analyze some things. I simply do not find her dances to draw me in, many times i actually think they are sloppy and in no way 10 worthy, get she has gotten 3.
I have been watching since season one, and the show has changed. It makes me sad thinking of what it used to be like. I am getting to the point where I no longer want to watch because it’s no longer about the dancing and progress. It has become a reality show, and I am not a fan.
Thank you for doing this- fascinating to read. I noticed over the years, that Erin sometimes interjects a little more “enthusiasm”, during some of her interviews and I wonder how much this influences the audience. Also, I think TPTB would like David to hang around for a while. It must be difficult to get celebrities to do this show and retired baseball players represent a new source of potential male competitors. It would be advantageous for David to do well, to encourage other baseball players to compete. Just my opinion.
I cannot for the life of me figure out why they pimp Val so hard season after season. It just baffles me.
I get that their looking for the next Derek or to a lesser degree Mark, but did they forget that those two rose to the top on their own merits without being pimped? They succeeded on talent, hard work, creativity and doing the best they could with whatever partner they got.
I actually was excited when Val was first cast as a pro. I enjoyed watching him in his Dancesport career. He was electrifying to watch on the ballroom floor. I think it was after the Zendaya season that I started to notice that he was acting a little too privileged and well…..smug. That’s also when his choreography began to get progressively dumbed down and transparent. I began to notice all the flaws in his choreography style. The time wasting, the too staccato movements, the lack of shade and fluidity and my personal pet peeve, the throwing away or flingy arms.
The show created an ego monster in Val by constantly catering to him and trying to make him seem like the “star” of the pros and it’s diminished his creativity and professionalism in the process.
When that happens in a significant way, Anon, they often don’t eliminate anyone the following week. Depends on how quick they catch it, I think.
I think David may hang around for a while whether they want him to or not. 🙂 I will be surprised if he doesn’t at least last longer than Bonner and Nick.
@Susan2 – #27 Your last paragraph describing Val sums things up perfectly!
I had a funny thought – what if PETA did better than both Maks and Val. That would definitely not be what tptb script called for. My final 4 are still Rashad, Nancy, David and Simone but wouldn’t mind Nick. We might be pimpfree script without Val.
Thank you for this very informative post. I wonder what TPTB had to say among themselves when they realized Heather was leaving? Bet they weren’t too happy and I’m sure Maks had plenty to say off screen. So even being treated as well as she was, she still left and I’m very happy about it. One C bro down, one to go.
@Susan2, I agree with what you say about Val. TPTB have fed Val’s ego and have created someone with an overblown sense of himself, believing he is the best on the show, entitled to the young celebs rather than someone over 55, and someone who believes should win every season because he’s the best. Sorry, but right now, Lindsay, Emma and Sasha are ranked at the top of my list.
The thought of Val winning back to back is beyond comprehension for me. As others have said, he has to EARN it, on his own talents, not with the manipulating that he gets. I know he thinks he’s all that, but I’m sure most of the pros would like to know they won fairly based on hard work and good dancing, not because TPTB are shoving you in the viewers faces every chance and in every way they can. Can we have another shocking elimination next week and see Normani leave and have her shippers blow up twitter with their disgust? It would make my Monday a whole lot happier.
Yes, Bonner, and probably Nick, are the weakest ones left right now, but I think they’re both coming across to viewers much more likable than Heather and I think Val’s ego and big mouth turn people away.
I think, even with all of this going on, that Simone, Rashad, David and Nancy are going to do well. I truly believe they could be the last four and if so, I would be happy with whoever won. None of their pros have won yet either, so it would be nice to see one of them get it too.
Viewers are opening their eyes and really seeing it from a different perspective. Having more posts like this that show proof that this is happening is making more viewers doing something to change it. There’s still a chance, even though it may be small, that if enough people start trying to change TPTB manipulations, this show could go back to the way it was.
Awesome post once again, Princess H! I really don’t get why they treat Simone the way they do. If she’s raking in the votes, they should just let it be. Such a poor treatment for nice young lady.
@Susan2, agree with you re: Val. He won’t progress a teacher and choreographer because tptb babies him.
Thanks to everyone producing the data and Princess Heidi for this post!
It’s really interesting that Heather, the one that got eliminated this week, got the most screen time, whereas Simone, arguably one of the more (or even the most?) popular celebrities going into the season gets the least amount of screen time. Also, with this week’s interview, Simone was interviewed as “often” as Mr. T, Charo and Chris (2 times) – the one’s already booted a while ago and significantly less often than others who have already been eliminated (Heather & Erika, 5 times) or have been in jeopardy (Nick & Normani, 4 times) – if i’m correct.
I wonder whether they’re not primarily trying to hose Simone by giving her less screen time, as much as they’re actually trying to help others by giving them more time (and consequently, her less – but why only her?). Maybe with the assumption that she’s already getting so many votes, she doesn’t need the help and with the goal of making others connect more with the audience and create more competition? But that makes me wonder, why not capitalize on having one of the most popular American athletes on the show by giving her a lot of exposure?
Maybe that’s the “Derek effect” and while they absolutely want someone as popular and talented as her on the show, they don’t necessarily want her to be “too” good and too likeable.
But, rosalu, the producers don’t have to “assume” anything. They know how she’s doing in votes.
So the question is, are they trying to keep her down…or is she already down and they’re responding accordingly? I seriously doubt it’s the latter, since Laurie won last season and Simone is probably the more recognized of the two.
Yeah, re-reading my post I realize I didn’t describe it well, but I was trying to say it’s my assumption, not the producers’, that she’s already doing so well in the votes that they decided to focus on others in terms of interviews etc.
Sorry, English is not my first language 🙂
I don’t live in the US, so I don’t always have a feel for who’s popular with the audience, but I know Americans are very proud of their athletes and of course I know Simone from the Olympics.
So I can’t quite imagine her not getting a lot of votes and would go with “they’re trying to keep her down”. If the producers after week 1 & 2 realized she’s not getting a lot votes then I think it would be more likely for them to actually help a well-known athlete and good dancer stick around by actually giving her more screen time instead of less. On the other hand… they might just do exactly what they’re doing right now.
But, I guess, time will tell. It will definitely be interesting to see how trends continue and change in the coming weeks.