PureDWTS Season 24 Court Rants: The Real Problem With The Girl Group Team Dance
And no, it’s not solely just “sexism” from the judges/audience/viewers – stay with me.
Over the past 48 hours, I have rolled my eyes so hard over some of the complaints about the group dances that it’s a wonder they haven’t gotten stuck. The majority of the ridiculous comments seem to be coming from the disgruntled #TeamGirlGroup crowd, who seem eager to complain about “sexism” on the show. Yes, sexism is a problem on DWTS – a big one, and one that Heidi & I will attempt to tackle in a future post. But why the Team Girl Group fans are complaining, I’m not sure, because the girls got one point more than the guys did – last I checked, the “winner” of the team dance was determined by who got more points. So congrats – you won. Why are you so upset?
My guess is that they’re mad about Team Boy Band generally getting more positive feedback from both the judges and the viewers – to which I say “well, tough luck” because people disagreeing with you is kind of a fact of life. You’re never going to agree with everyone, all the time. But in the interest of turning this into a teaching moment, I’m going to indulge some of you and explain just what many of us found wrong with the girl’s dance, and what the boys team did right. Whether you choose to actually consider it is up to you – but I can tell you now that empty accusations of “sexism!!!” undermine the real instances of sexism we encounter on a daily basis; and within the context of DWTS, believe me – women in general (particularly the female pros) tend to get screwed on a regular basis.
First, let me lead with this: I do not blame the female celebs for any of the failures of their team dance, so if you’re trying to twist this into “You’re being mean to Normani!” or “You’re being really unfair to Heather!”, you’re putting up straw men, you’re gonna get called out, and you’re gonna look dumb. The onus is on the pros to create and choreograph a suitable routine to make their partners look good – and I feel like the male pros failed their partners. EPICALLY. I also don’t blame the judges, because for once, I think they were pretty on-the-money with their critiques and scores (I’ve written off the extra point as a sympathy point, given as a bit of an “oh boy, your pros really screwed you – here, have an extra point!” consolation prize) – I don’t think they were completely off-base in what they were saying. And actually, I don’t blame the powers that be, either – I actually think the girls got a much better set of songs to work with (including one sung by one of the girls on the team – ahem) that gave them a lot more creative potential than the songs that were given to the boys’ team. Really and truly, the stars were aligned for the girls to really slay the team dance – and then the male pros kinda shat all over the opportunity.
Problem #1: The dance did not utilize the enormous amount of talent the female celebs have.
Probably the grossest offense the male pros committed was simply failing to utilize the ENORMOUS talent pool of their female celebs. Every woman on Team Girl Group was a ringer, to some degree – two Olympians (one gymnast, one skater), a PROFESSIONAL dancer, and a singer with extensive dance training. These women could have done all manner of acrobatic and flexibility power-moves, classical jazz & ballet steps with exceptional technique, and at least two of them probably could have even made worthwhile contributions to the choreography itself. Instead, we got an aimless mixture of basic ballroom steps and a few tricks peppered in, which wasn’t terribly impressive or exciting to watch, on top of not really having anything to do with the music; there was also the frivolous preening at the beginning of the dance, with the girls doing silly moves with hairspray and admiring each other’s nails. This was really how Maks, Val, Artem, and Sasha wanted to showcase the talents of their respective partners??? I swear, they were basically given a gift-wrapped win in the team dance, with the amount of talent they had to work with – and they completely blew it. I think they should consider themselves very, very lucky that the judges took pity on them and gave them a score that was one point more than the other team.
What Team Boy Band did differently: In terms of dance skills, the female pros had a tougher row to hoe – none of their partners are trained dancers, and the only one with a considerable amount of natural skill is Rashad. So what do you do when you don’t have a lot of dance talent to work with? You focus on their other strengths – in this case, SHOWMANSHIP. They weren’t going to be able to beat Team Girl Group on choreographic difficulty (although they had no idea at the time that the opposing team’s choreography would be so…bland), so they stuck with simple choreography that the guys could do cleanly and in sync, and just made sure the guys SOLD THE HELL OUT OF IT. And I think it worked out in their favor – the showmanship of Team Boy Band far outweighed the technical execution of Team Girl Group, which is why I think they got a much more positive response out of the judges, audience, and viewers.
Problem #2: The staging was poor.
Aside from the obvious lighting issues at the end of the dance (not their fault), I just felt like the stage was poorly-lit for the bulk of the dance, and we lost a lot of the nuance in the performance as a result – namely facial expressions, which help us as viewers connect to the dance. In addition, there seemed to be spacing issues (there were a couple times where couples nearly bumped into each other, or weren’t evenly spaced about the floor) and generally, just poor use of the space itself – after the girls ran off the bedroom set at the beginning of the dance, the rest of the dance basically took up the same rectangle of space in the middle of the floor; and within that rectangle, the only shapes they seemed to be making were horizontal lines and circles – very basic formations, visually.
What Team Boy Band did differently: They were using a lot more of the space – they were dancing on the stage, in front of the stage, on the opposite end of the floor as the stage, and then on the platform extending from the stage. That alone kept things interesting – and then they also added in some interesting shapes: they were lining up horizontally and vertically, they did a cool triangle formation with Nick at the front at one point, and they had the girls dancing in line behind the guys and vice-versa. It kept things really interesting, visually, which is what I think a lot of the winning team dances in the past have done. The guys surprisingly also seemed more aware of their spacing and placement than the ladies did, and there was very little in the way of collisions or overlapping spaces.
Problem #3: None of the ladies seemed to be having much fun.
One could argue that part of this had to do with the aforementioned poor staging/lighting, but I didn’t see a whole lot in the way of smiling/seeming energetic from the girls – and some of the smiles I saw felt a bit forced & pageant-y. The whole “My Boyfriend’s Back” section was just cloying, and pretty much everything they did during “No Scrubs” seemed so serious. Nancy in particular seemed pretty pained, which I can’t entirely blame her for – with as childish as some of the portions of their team dance ended up being, I’d probably be a tad embarrassed, having to do the steps as a grown woman. The rest of the time, they seemed to plaster brief smiles on their face, or get caught up in remembering choreo and go a bit blank. At the end, I was just left with a feeling of joylessness – like none of the ladies had really had a good time with the routine. It felt like a chore.
What Team Boy Band did differently: Kinda simple – they actually had fun. They had fun every step of the way, from the guys coming up with their own choreography in rehearsal to trying to come up with a band name. At some point during the performance, I saw each of the guys just absolutely grinning – and it was the type of grin where you can tell they’re about to just bust out laughing, because they’re having such a good time. David in particular seemed to be relishing the experience of being the heartthrob of a boy band, and really put his heart into it. Even the female pros seemed to be having a great time – at the end, when they were all onstage bowing together, the women just looked ELATED…like the team dance had actually been fun for them too, and not another task on their to-do list.
Problem #4: There was sexism in play – but probably not in the way you think.
Seems like a lot of the Team Boy Band detractors want to complain about “the men took off the shirts and got praised for it, but the women didn’t try to be sexy and got penalized for it!” I think deep down, we all know that’s not the real issue here – but while we’re on the topic of sexism, I’d like to point out a few sexist things I noticed in the girl’s routine. First, the whole beginning section (“My Boyfriend’s Back”) – note that the routine started with the camera panned in on a monitor showing the male pros all flexing and preening with their shirts open, and then proceeded to show the female celebs fawning over them like a bunch of schoolgirls at a slumber party. That alone made me question who the real focus of this routine was going to be – it’s supposed to be about the women and them being empowered, so why have we reduced them to google-eyed, boy-crazy teenagers? Then they proceeded to do a bunch of simple, fluffy choreography where they used hairspray, admired each other’s nails, and did a few turns before doffing their bathrobes. About the only slumber party stereotypes missing there were the topless pillow fights and lesbian experimentation *eye roll*. And really, if you listen to the lyrics of “My Boyfriend’s Back”, it’s about a girl telling off a guy that’s been spreading nasty rumors about her because she wouldn’t go out with him. So in other words – completely at odds with the tone of that opening section. Then we move onto “No Scrubs” – a song about a woman demanding more from a man than sexually-aggressive catcalls from a loser who can’t even afford his own ride. It starts out with the women in chairs, getting lapdances from the male pros (who seem to think very highly of themselves) – ok, a good representation of the sexually aggressive men the song talks about. But rather than shutting down that bravado, the ladies seemed to respond in kind with a lapdance of their own, complete with lustily stroking down the guys’ bare chests. I like to think the choreography was TRYING to be sassy, but ended up a bit…ambivalent. Then it led into a sort of Argentine tango section, which, while decent, didn’t seem to have much to do with anything, and seemed to just take up space. Then we move into “B.O.S.S.” – probably the most empowering song of the bunch, and the one ripe with the most potential for choreography to showcase these ladies’ many talents. We get maybe 10 seconds of shimmying Beyonce shoulders, and a couple hair flips with their hands on their hips, while battling the smoke monster…and then they’re back with the guys, doing samba. Really??? If I had been the male pros, I would have made this the section the girls did individually, and borrowed heavily from Mandy’s “B.O.S.S.” routine for the female pros a few seasons back. THIS was the song that would have really let them shine. But instead, we got more generic ballroom steps that really didn’t a) let the girls shine, and b) didn’t really fit the tone of the music. Issues with the lighting notwithstanding, I was left kinda wondering “Did that really highlight the women? Or was it more a display of the male pros (at least some of the them) and their inflated sense of self?” I’m gonna go with the latter, and I actually find it really disheartening that a group of extremely talented, hardworking, successful women were reduced to giggling, boy-chasing schoolgirls following the lead of a bunch of chauvinists.
What Team Boy Band did differently: I’ll admit, with a theme like “boy bands vs. girl groups”, there’s bound to be at least a little bit of sexism. And sure, you may look at the section the guys did with the chairs and criticize it for using cheap sex appeal – that’s your prerogative, but I will say that I actually think it was very age and body-positive (and actually kind of refreshing) that nobody had any hangups about Grandpa, a guy that is clearly much older and not exactly possessing the physique of the other three men, doffing his shirt and gyrating along with the other three guys (and having fun doing it!) But where I think the guys went right was not falling into the same trap that Team Girl Group did, by turning their female pros into squealing, fangirling adolescents that were besotted by their every pelvic thrust – they weren’t even present for the chair part, and during the rest of the dance, they felt like teammates, as opposed to fly girls/backup dancers/fans. And yet, the female pros still managed to allow the male celebs to shine – but they didn’t have to make fools of themselves to do it.
So basically – Team Girl Group wasn’t getting penalized for “not being sexy”; they were penalized for not doing really anything at all. The choreography wasn’t up-to-snuff, the dancing was low-energy and disconnected from the music, they weren’t really using the space, and they got stuck in gender-stereotype pitfalls. But I’m guessing most of you already knew that, and are probably just trying to find something external to blame that absolves anyone on Team Girl Group from any responsibility whatsoever for the failure of the dance. Whatever helps you sleep at night, I guess – just don’t be surprised if your favorite couple ends up eliminated earlier because they refused to heed the advice of the judges…
THANK YOU! I’ve been having this exact conversation with people all week. And it’s nice to have someone else finally see what I saw.
Great read Courtney! Thanks for taking the time to write this.
Exactly!
Thanks fir a great post!
It’s too bad the judges didn’t give the ladies’ group the scores that their comments suggested.
Great read!
I also think the female pros just get along better than the male pros. It was like the male pros were like “ew why should I contribute to making a great dance and boosting so and so’s celeb partner up” and so they all focused heavily on their individual dances.
Agree. The word that came to mind as I watched the girl dance was “discombobulated.” Didn’t flow. The guy dance was more of a performance.
I dub thee EMPRESS Courtney! Everything that you say is just so well educated, well thought out, cited and sourced. I mean yes I know you have been watching DWTS forever but your commitment in ensuring that everyone has the opportunity to really know what goes on in the hallways of DWTS is just incredible. I love reading your posts and your blogs. (I even re-read your old power rankings because back when there was more technique involved it was nice to read your technical advise on dancing, I even apply it to my own dancing career). So thank you.
I do have one question, why didn’t Artem and Sasha go up against the C Bros fight for their partners and give their partners more stuff to do? I mean they have not disserviced their partners all season long yet why now? I mean are Maks and Val so unreasonable that they wouldn’t let the other two get a word in edge wise? Or did Artem and Sasha just stay quiet and let them take over? Which in that case I blame them just as much. If you already answered the question already in another post please feel free to ignore it (I know how you hate to repeat yourself).
Agree on the male pros EmnEm, I definitely don’t think Sasha and Maks get along, I bet Sasha still hasn’t forgot Maks panning him and Paige when he was a guest judge. Then you’ve got Artem and his decidedly frosty relationship with the brothers since the S21 drama. When you’re forced to work with someone you don’t like, you just grit your teeth and do the bare minimum and that’s exactly what they did. The dance looked like the choreography had been hashed together in double quick speed so the male pros didn’t have to spend any more time with each other than they had to. Plus you’ve got the fact that all four have good female celebs, they were probably all more bothered about their individual dances.
I agree the ladies dance played in to sexist sterotypes regarding women. I hated the preening at the beginning and the lap dance stuff was unnecessary. As for the women not seeming to have fun it could be due to the lackluster choreo but I also think being told that one of them was about to go home probably dampened their spirits too.
This was a great post, particularly re. the difference in sexism between the two team dances.
I you-tubed the 2 dances a few times and it’s so clear how Team Boy Band timed their dance perfectly and productively, held the audiences attention more and was just more enjoyable more fun to watch. That team, definitely, had a good time.
Team Girl Group was the complete opposite-I thought they had timing issues and had some difficulty being in sync with eachother, there was a lot of wasted time and space throughout the dance especially that whole opening ‘slumber party’ part, and worst of all, that whole routine reeked of Val and Maks. From the onset of the dance with that cheesy opening with the girls, to the arg. tango and samba incorporated into it at the end, that entire dance had a, shall I say, sleaziness quality to it that, in my opinion, only the Chmerkovskiy brothers tend to bring. Which is such a shame because I, absolutely agree, that this team had 4 of the best dancers from the season, as well as Normani being thrown a bone using her own song in the dance. This team should’ve, definitely, slayed and instead they disappointed big time compared to Team Boy Band.
One thing bugging me: Should Artem and Sasha have maybe stepped it up more in their team dance, if I’m to assume that Val and Maks, basically, took over? Well there I go again assuming too much-I could be wrong about all of this and maybe I am assuming too much? The pros are all grown-ups-they should be able to all work together without one superseding the other or can they? ? LOL Sometimes it’s best to just keep your mouth shut and go along for the ride so as not to cause drama-quite possibly, Artem and Sasha felt that way. Of course this is all speculation on my part!
Fabulous post – thank you Courtney. I must admit after I saw an IG post by Maks talking about their team of powerful, inspirational and unstoppable women, I got my hopes up that they’d come up with something amazing. But of course not. Or it’s just sad if they genuinely think this was the the best they could come up with to represent these women.
I noticed though, when Len was telling them what a load of crap it was, Artem looks like he is gritting his teeth and almost nodding while Maks looks almost embarrassed and is hiding behind Heather. So I’m assuming Maks the alpha male basically ran the show with help from little bro.
You said it all, Court. Well said on everything!! I love the Boy Team more for everything you wrote.
Very interesting, thought-out post!
I guess the team dances once again showed how some of the male pros receive opportunity after opportunity to get creative, to show us something we have never seen before, however, they fail to do so. Yet the female pros, most of the time, are working with partners who don’t have any kind of dance experience and sometimes even lack some natural ability, but still manage to put out routines that not only showcase their partner’s strengths and hide their weaknesses, the routines are also often fun and exciting to watch. I also completely agree on the staging – it was really cleverly done with some nice formations, and the crowd in front of the stage gave it a fun concert feeling. So, if anything, I think we can proud to have these awesome, talented female pros on the show!
I wonder, though, what the reaction to the team dances would have been if Heather wasn’t eliminated and there wasn’t a debate about Erika’s sexiness.
Some might have been very emotional about Heather’s exit. But really, it doesn’t have anything to do with the guys – Heather just didn’t get the votes needed to stay longer.
Apparently others also took Len’s criticism of Erika only showing her sexy side as him disapproving of her being sexy, whereas that criticism was really more aimed at her being too one-note (that’s probably partly on Gleb, which disappoints me, since he was so great on Strictly). And it’s something I agree on, since up until her last dance we never had the opportunity to see another side, a cheeky, fun or vulnerable side to her.
I guess some people broke it all down to “the guys benefit from sexy, the girls get scolded for it – and their technical skills aren’t appreciated” and refuse to differentiate and think critically about it only to make their point.
It’s weird though – because the C-boys do defer to Derek when he’s on their team. That’s smart. So why would they go all Alpha when it’s sasha and Artem? Because they don’t see those two as “veterans”?
Excellent, Courtney! Your rants are mine, too. But you have a much better way of putting them into words. Thank you for writing this.
Amen Court! So sick hearing all these people whining!
Damn girl! I’ve been loving all your rants, but this one is just exquisite! Thank you so much for EVERYTHING
… you do at Pure. Always the best part of any season 😀 (Hit enter by accident…)
I really hated Normani’s routine to “When I Grow Up”. I couldn’t see how the dance fit the theme or how the theme fit the premise of the song. It was uncomfortable to watch. And I feel like that kind of choreography and story telling bled into the “team girl group” dance. The theme didn’t fit the music. It was all very vulgar. So I find myself agreeing that Val played a heavy hand in the team choreography. I can’t really blame Sasha or Artem too much, I could see how forceful the brothers might be, how they might run roughshod over other pros in that circumstance.
The women might not have had as a productive rehearsal. It certainly didn’t seem blocked well.
Personally, I found BOTH dances to be vulgar. I have always hated the “strip show” style dances, but the womens’ dance was *more* uncomfortable to watch, because I think they seemed uncomfortable.
Overall, I agree, someone dropped the ball and that girl group dance just missed the mark.
Thank you for writing this! Your evaluation/comparison of Team Boy Band and Team Girl Band performances was spot-on! You expressed every thought I had about the dances, and then some. The “boys” and their pro-partners had fun and it showed = pure entertainment value. The “girls” routine was boring and sexist as you explained. I still cannot figure out why the “boys” did not outscore the “girls” by a wide margin – showed perhaps a little bias on the part of the judges?
The only thing I disagree with is when you wrote that David Ross is “a guy that is clearly much older and ….” David (at age 40) is not that much older than Nick (age 36, I think) – David just plays up the “Grandpa” angle and he is the only dad in the group.
#Princess Heidi Sooo true!!! Why do Val and Maks feel the need to assert their authority over Sasha and Artem when they wouldn’t do it to Derek? Do they really look at Sasha and Artem as so inferior to themselves as pros and colleagues? Cause if that’s the case the Chmerkovskiy ego and arrogance has gotten, ludicrously, bigger over the years???
I do believe that Derek would never have allowed them to walk all over him-in those team dances, Derek always seemed like the natural leader/choreographer in them and nobody held that against him or seemed to mind it-his team dances were great!
M8, exactly. And I did forget about that judges comment he made. Still irks me. I am really hoping Sasha or Emma take it this season, just to piss of Maks or Val. That they both had amazing celebs who they could have won with.
I think TPTB want Normani and Val to win…but Simone and Rashad are really making it difficult ans rightfully so. Going to pray to the rain gods that Rashad wins. ?
My impression from watching Derek since Season 5 is that he’s nobody’s fool, Anon. And he has no trouble being assertive when it comes to choreography and quite a few other things – yes, a natural leader. I think a lot of people (including some of his fans) see this super nice guy who never says a bad word about anyone (unless seriously pushed), always helping, etc. and make the mistake of thinking that he’s “easy”. On the contrary, IMO – I think he’s got a good bit of hard ass in him that certainly comes out under the right conditions. And choreographic choices would be one of those areas. Or people raising a ruckus in the ballroom. 🙂
There was a story going around years ago – can’t remember the source for sure, but I wanna say Corky – that during the team dance rehearsals there was an altercation between Derek and Warren Sapp. It was such a strong rumor that Warren was asked about it on ET; he downplayed it, laughed and commented on Derek’s size, but from what I heard Derek was right up in his face and ready to go. Derek had been bullied as a little kid and got kicked out of a couple schools for not letting people get away with it, so I think he has a method for handling shit like that.
#Princess Heidi Ha! Ha! I would, definitely, believe that story!! You know what they say about the quiet ones-never underestimate them? In a way, that always fit Derek-not that he was a mouse and never spoke up either but I think, for the most part, unless pushed to the edge, he was always the most upstanding guy who always had everybody’s back and never had a bad thing to say about anybody. Never would he have talked back to the judges the way Val and Maks constantly do-absolutely not-that would never be Derek! Never would he have made such a spectacle of himself in his rehearsal packages the way Val and Maks do-especially Maks who has a tendency to think he’s Gods gift to women! ???? That was never Derek! He never felt the need to prove himself like that to anyone-to his partner, his fans, the judges-he showed no pretense!
#Princess Heidi you’re making me very sad reminiscing about Derek right now-don’t get me started on Mark! ??????
That’s an interesting story about Derek and Warren and just proves something I like to think, that being smaller doesn’t mean you can’t be a badass.
If TPTB decide to continue with the lame girls vs. boys team dances, then someday I hope to see a girl dance that’s actually about strong, uplifting and supercool WOMEN.
I found myself smiling the whole time during the guy’s dance. It looked like a party I wanted to go to. I didn’t smile once during the ladies dance. It looked like an awkward party you endure for as little as possible before you make up somewhere you have to be RIGHT NOW and get the hell outta there.
I didn’t care much for either team dance, but I agree that the male pros had more to work with and did less with what they had. As predicted, it had a heavy C-Bros taint to it and it was a waste of potential.
It was awful that the ladies danced to “No Scrubs” then simultaneously had to paw at those scrubs. That’s the sexism in the dance that bothered me, and thank you so much for nailing it.
@Courtney….Thank you for a great rant!!
You broke down each group dance into segments of a detailed, spot-on description of what went wrong and what went right. I so enjoyed reading and one thought came to mind, “you sure have a great deal of knowledge of the dancing (dance styles & techniques, how the show operates, good & bad choreography)
@PHeidi….I.T.A. with your post #14. I didn’t enjoy the Girls Team Dance because it hand Val & Maks’ fingerprints all over it. That’s why it was a mess in the choreography part. And, that’s a shame, since Artem & Sasha have been doing better choreography than either of the C-bros.
Also, I believe the story about Derek & Warren Sapp and agree that although Derek is always in kind, descent, positive mode, I have read in his blogs that he doesn’t tolerate mean crapola & uncalled for lies or slander against him or his dance partner. I would even go so far as to say that he no doubt carries a can of “whoop ass” in his back pocket.
I don’t know about all of you members here who have been watching the show back from when Derek came on the show; but he spoiled me BIG TIME with his amazing talents and beautiful personality!!! I don’t think I will pull out of it either as long as we have the hole in the show that Derek & Mark left behind them.
I’m hoping that Alan is given a chance to be in the cast in the Fall season, and show us what he can do. No one will ever be Derek; but without him & Mark we need some male Pro talent to fill in the gap. The female Pros are doing great and they have more of a challenge this season.
PH, I totally agree with your assessment of Derek. I think he can give as much as he gets, but is smart enough to work with alternatives. He is so successful because he IS SMART, as well as talented. Because of that, people want t
Damn, stupid computer, let me finish my thought…people want to work with him. They will give supreme effort for him. Not so for the C bros.
???
Thank you Courtney for this post. I agree with you 100%. The girls were a complete mess and I find it hard to believe that such strong women didn’t look at their pros and say we aren’t doing the silly school girl nonsense. The boys won this without a doubt, even with the pity point the girls received.
I agree with everything you said about the girl group. But I didnt care for the boyband dance as well, as I thought it was a bit all over the place & Bonner wasn’t in sync. However, the female pros did a better job