Dancing with the Stars – History of the Judges Scores, Part 3
Okay, folks, it’s been a while but here is part three in my series about the History of Judges scoring. As you may recall, from Part I and Part II, this series got started in response to the judges over-scoring of Bristol Palin in Season 11. The question was – were the judges always like this? Did they always over score some (young) people while underscoring true condenders? Have they always tried to make it into a horse race? It has also morphed into trying to also answer the question “have they always been extremely nasty (see Michael Bolton) to some, seemingly without reason??” Season 12’s example was Ralph Machio – their displays were often disgusting. But more on that another time. This post is looking back on the judging of Season 7. I think you might find a couple of very interesting things happened in this season that may have been a harbinger of things to come – but we can’t be sure until we also watch subsequent seasons. 🙂 One thing I can say – I did NOT see as much commentary about “we are going into the semi-finals and this isn’t good enough” as we did in Season 5, but the scoring still seemed reasonable and not over the top.
Here were the scores from Week 5, onward:
Season 7 Weekly Scores (Part I)
Celebrity | Week 5 | Week 6 | Week 7 | Week 8 |
Brooke | 29 (Jitterbug) | 26 (Rumba) | 30 (Foxtrot) | 28 (Tango) |
29 (Team Tango) | 27 (Mambo) | |||
Warren | 25 (Hustle) | 25 (Rumba) | 21 (Foxtrot) | 28 (Tango) |
29 (Team Tango) | 26 (Jive) | |||
Lance | 21 (WC Swing) | 27 (Jive) | 25 (Rumba) | 26 (Foxtrot) |
20 (Team Cha Cha) | 24 (Samba) | |||
Cody | 28 (Jitterbug) | 23 (Samba) | 22 (V. Waltz) | 24 (Foxtrot) |
20 (Team Cha Cha) | 24 (Mambo) | |||
Maurice | 27 (Salsa) | 21 (V. Waltz) | 25 (Cha Cha) | 24 (Quickstep) |
29 (Team Tango) | 24 (Paso Doble) | |||
Susan | 22 (Hustle) | 23 (Mambo) | 24 (Paso Doble) | |
20 (Team Cha Cha) | ||||
Cloris | 21 (Salsa) | 15 (Cha Cha) | ||
Toni | 22 (WC Swing) |
Season 7 Weekly Scores (Part II)
Celebrity | Week 9 | Week 10 | Week Finale | |
Brooke | 21 (Jive) | 28 (Samba) | 30 (V. Waltz) | |
28 (Salsa) | 30 (Freestyle) | |||
Warren | 24 (Mambo) | 25 (Samba) | 27 (Hustle) | |
25 (Jitterbug) | 28 (Freestyle) | |||
Lance | 28 (Mambo) | 26 (Samba) | 28 (Jitterbug) | |
29 (Jitterbug) | 27 (Freestyle) |
Week 5 – What is significant this week is that they really took Lacey to the woodshed, with comments similar to “we know you’re a pro at West Coast Swing, you need to feature your partner”. Lacey said she wasn’t upset, but I think she was ready to cry. While the judges were a bit over the top, I didn’t think it was too extreme – mainly it’s hard to watch a pro get raked, even if they deserve it. Really, this week the judges were critical of Toni and Susan in a way that was reasonable, and slightly overscored Cody – but not in a huge way. Mainly because I think Julianne overdanced him a bit and didn’t get called on it. But their Jitterbug was very good, regardless. But then I remember at the time thinking that Brooke was also overscored a bit, maybe by a point. That said – who’s to know, we’re talking Jitterbug here. Also overscored? Maurice – I don’t think Maurice ever did a “27” dance while on the show, but they scored him on improvement.
Week 6 – This is the week of Michael Flatley as guest judge and just about everything was out of wack. Michael seemed to be scoring with the wrong part of his anatomy, and Carrie Ann was having…well, at the risk of being sexist – PMS. So, she raves over Susan (who always dances like a china doll), then she kinda harshes on Cloris saying “We lost Toni for this?” Okay, so Cloris is insane and can’t dance –but take it up with the voters, sweetheart . Not to mention the judges gave her a 21 the previous week!! Then Carrie Ann turns around and is a bit over the top (perhaps to compensate for Michael Flately) on Brooke’s Rumba. No, it wasn’t Brooke’s best dance but she acts like it’s a disaster – then gives her an *8*! Crack is wack. Michael gives her a 10 which even Derek is stunned by. I think the 8 score was actually fine, it’s just CAI’s comments that were really out of line with how she actually scored it. My other gripe was Warren – this was a week where he really didn’t seem to do much dancing, and made some mistakes the judges called him on, but still got a 25 – which would have put him ahead of Brooke if not for Michael’s 10. It’s weeks like this one (which had been rare up to this point) where you really wonder what is going on in the judges brains. Can you seriously give a contestant a 21 and then be pissed when they’re still there the following week and do a crappy dance?? Try using the right paddles, sweetie.
Week 7 – Again, the judges rave over Susan for a dance that was weak, not sharp or aggressive and boring. They’re on crack again. All three of them. On the other hand, they pretty much crucify Warren – not sure that I agree with that. Cody also did a better dance than Susan to my eye and they were actually rather harsh on him, saying he was plodding, or like a “fledgling bird that can’t take off”. This is also the week that Len goes insane over Lance being barefoot, although he still ended up with a 25, and Lacey smarts off to the judges. I thought they underscored Cody and overscored Susan. The rest of the scores I rather agreed with, for the most part. This was also the week of the Team Cha Cha and Team Paso – the first season of Team dances – and Team Paso lead by Derek was miles ahead of team Cha Cha to an embarrassing degree. Of course, they learned that it’s not really fair to put a Paso against a Cha Cha and Len acknowledged that. IMO, Team Paso’s team dance is the best team dance to date.
Week 8 – Remember when Len went insane and called Brooke’s Tango not up to a professional level, essentially judging her as a professional because CAI said she was getting that good the week before? That was this week. I have to wonder if this is the start of the purposely underscoring the frontrunner to make it look like a more even contest, because this was crazy. HE was crazy Of course, he gives Brooke an 8, and a few minutes later gives Maurice an 8 and Cody an 8….sure, that’s logical. Not. Not that Maurice and Cody were overscored, but that Brooke was purposely underscored. The rest of the scoring is pretty on target, although you start to notice that Warren is getting great scores but not getting the footwork – and they call him on it then give him great scores anyway. Charm goes a long way and people loved him – don’t want to lose that!
Week 9 – This is an example of how the last third of a dance being totally screwed up affects the view of an entire performance. I remember Brooke’s Jive being a disaster. But when I watched it for this post, it really didn’t become bad until the last third. The judges comment on technique going down the toilet – but I think she just forgot the steps. Hence, no technique. What really bothered me though, was what appeared to be some very poor sportsmanship in the background while they were talking to Brooke. Gee, who on this show would be a poor sport?? Anyway, CAI gets all hoity toity about a deliberate lift and Derek’s saying something to Brooke about some style, blah blah – watch the background.
Anyway, after that, everyone gets hosed in the first round except Lance, and I pretty much agree, over all, with all of it. Second round everyone does much better and my only complaint, again, is Warren. No technique but pretty decent scores. Round two, Brooke comes roaring back, and Cody gets pretty critical comments again. Warren, on the other hand, gets great comments but only an average score. Lance gets rave reviews. I agree with all of this, including Lance ending up in first place at the end of the night. I mention Cody’s critical comments because this is one of our metrics – do the youngsters get treated easier than their older competition. I would say no, in Cody’s case.
Week 10 – Ah, the finale, when the judges are pretty easy on everyone. 🙂 They pretty much are easy, although they continue to comment on Warren’s lack of technique but infectious joy. He’s the Marissa of Season7. 🙂 They got as close as realistically possible to throwing it to the voters as they could while still maintaining credibility. I mean, Warren did have bad footwork, and Brooke was a step or two above the men in technique…and Lance’s freestyle could have been a lot better. The only critical comments handed out go to Lance for that freestyle. So, if you have a chance, watch the Season 7 freestyles on YouTube and we’ll continue to debate the age old question – does a bad freestyle cost you the competition? Think about the 3 points Lance could have gained had he done a better freestyle – it could have been a game changer. Would he have won? Probably not – he couldn’t beat Warren and they were essentially tied. The best it probably would have done is MAYBE handing him second place.
So, is this the season where the judges go all crazy and start getting fame hungry and mean to dancers?? I have to wonder. Could Cloris’ lengthy stay have made them snap, as seen by CAI’s attitude in week 6? And did they realize that if Brooke kept scoring well above everyone else the drama would be done (these observations coincide with the birth of “in jeopardy!), so they under score her and over scored others?? I guess we’ll see when I get around to the next installment. I think we can safely say that they don’t overscore all young dancers. I thought there were a few occasions where they underscored Cody. I also think that, barring that one week where Len was insane and the week when Michael Flatley too Len’s place, Brooke was fairly scored the whole way. Overall, I didn’t have too much of a gripe with this season – all complaints were relatively minor. On to Season 8!! Can’t guarantee I’ll get to it before the hard work of Season 13 REALLY begins (really, it began a couple weeks ago). 🙂
Notes: Week 5 had a real bottom 2. But there was no bottom 2 revealed in week 6. In week 7, we have “jeopardy!”. I think this was a relatively new concept at this point.
Ever notice how Mark always manages to make it back on the results shows with his partners?? I don’t think anyone else has ever managed it to the degree he does. Well, good for him, I guess.
Brooke only went last once (but it was before a team dance) and never had the encore (that wasn’t a team dance). Warren, on the other hand, went last Four times and had the encore 2 times. Lance had one encore. As we’ve often discussed on this site, running order is pretty important, as are encores – that Brooke managed to win with little to no pimpage is pretty amazing.
For those paying attention to me and Courtney griping in recent seasons about random ass dances and no pattern, this is for you. Back in the day, it WAS reasonable and was easier to compare dancers. TWO dances per week for the first 4 weeks. Four dances in Week 5. I vote we go back to this very sensible formula. Here’s the dance schedule, from Wikipedia:
- Week 1 (Night 1): Cha-Cha-Cha or Foxtrot
- Week 1 (Night 2): Mambo or Quickstep
- Week 2: Paso Doble or Rumba
- Week 3: Jive or Viennese Waltz
- Week 4: Samba or Tango
- Week 5: Hustle, Jitterbug, Salsa or West Coast Swing
- Week 6: One unlearned dance (Week 1 to Week 4) & Old School Hip-Hop Group Dance
- Week 7: One unlearned dance (Week 1 to Week 4) & Team Cha-Cha-Cha or Paso Doble
- Week 8: Two unlearned dances (one Ballroom, one Latin) from Week 1 to Week 4, with a 15-second solo during the Latin routine
- Week 9: Final unlearned dance (Week 1 to Week 4) & Jitterbug or Salsa
- Week 10: Samba Smackdown, Freestyle & Favorite Dance of the Season
very good points, heidi. agree almost everything =]
about the dance schedule… I like how it was on season 12… sincerely… so mixed… I always want to see the a.tango, samba, salsa/mambo as soon as I can…
the only thing I really don’t like is the 2 styles of waltz…
to me, just waltz or v. waltz, not both on a season, is enough…
the ballroom tango… don’t like it very much… I can count on my fingers the b.tangos I’ve seen on show during the 12 seasons and I liked…: Nicole, Joey F, Jey Grey, S9 and S8 team tango… but it’s my personal opinion…
They could use the american smooth…
Heidi:
What are the chances they will go back to the jitterbug, mambo, etc? Dances that haven’t been done for a while.
I’d love to see Derek and his partner start off with something fast. I guess it’s the producers that schedule the dances, right?
Gee, Carlos, nearly all those Tangos you mention were choreographed by Derek. 😉 For me it’s not a question of when I want to see a dance, it’s that the show seems to add a bit more “fairness” to a competition that is already pretty unfair by having only two dances per week. I wish they would go back to that. That mess of four or five different dances in the first night is ridiculous. I do agree that they don’t need both Waltzes.
Margaret, how would I know what the odds are?? These producers are crazy! 🙂 Just guessing, I would say – not very good, because the Jitterbug/WC Swing and other dances they had during S7 were only done ONCE and I think they realized that they were difficult to judge and most of the pros don’t know them. As for Derek and his partner – I got pretty tired of the “Derek and partner go first doing a cha cha” they seem to had going with him for a while. Of his 7 seasons on the show, I think he went first with a Cha Cha 4 times. I’d have to go back and look to be sure, but it seemed like a lot.
I hated how random the dance schedule was in season 12 – and it did turn out to be rather unfair for some couples, when they were handed a rather difficult dance during a week where most of the other couples had an easier one (Ralph & Karina’s samba on American Night sticks out). It just served to make them look even worse, since it gave the impression that they bombed while everyone else did much better. It wasn’t a fair comparison. And it also resulted in those that made it all the way to the finale still having one dance that they never learned – Hines never did the waltz, and Kirstie & Chelsea never did the standard tango.
As for multiple waltzes & tangos – I can understand why they have them. Both waltzes are part of the standard repertoire of both American & International-style ballroom dances, as are the tango. Since they use all 5 standard Latin dances (cha-cha, samba, rumba, paso doble, & jive), I think they try to maintain congruence with the ballroom dances, and use the waltz, tango, foxtrot, quickstep, and Viennese waltz. And Carlos – the pros do have the option of doing either the international or American style of the waltz, tango, foxtrot, and Viennese waltz (there is no such thing as the American quickstep – they have to do international). Lacey in particular seems pretty fond of doing more smooth tango steps than standard ones. I think a lot of the pros just prefer to do the international style because they’re a) more experienced in it, and b) because they think it will impress Len more. Now one redundancy I’m glad they got rid of was having both the mambo & the salsa – they’re too similar for most viewers to differentiate between, and half the time the pros end up doing salsa timing for their mambos anyway. At least the Argentine tango is different enough from the regular one for viewers to easily tell them apart.
I do remember the judges being kinda hard on Cody in season 7. He definitely didn’t get very many free passes from them, even when Julianne was gone. I think the “let’s cut the youngsters a break” may not have started until Shawn in season 8 – they seemed afraid to really come down hard on her. And I remember them being ridiculously easy on Cheryl & Maurice – he was overscored more often than not. Not sure why…did they feel as though they owed it to Cheryl to let her stick around awhile? Idk.
Heidi/Courtney/Vogue:
Just heard they will have a new amphitheater style stage setting with an extra level of seating and a new orchestra pit. Get this the staircase will move, I guess to avoid anyone from falling down. What do you think?
I was mad at week 5, ok Lacey overdanced Lance for their WCS but the routine was great (except for that fall, he really handled it very well for someone with no wcs experience) and they get the same score as Cloris who couldn’t dance salsa and a lesser score than Toni and Alec whose routine was a bad cha cha cha with no WCS in it.
It does seem like we are seeing a similar pattern of harsh judging going on here and it’s getting worse with every season. I wonder what their critiques will be like this year. Will they cool out or be even worse? They think controversy is selling the show, so I bet they will keep it up. Though I wish they could see they don’t need it.
And Heidi, it does seem like they try and get Mark into the finals.
Margaret, I think the new stage sounds dangerous. We have a new post coming up on it shortly. Stay tuned.
😉
Heidi, excellent write up!!!
I thought the judges messing with everyone’s scores started in season 10! I think they did it in season 7, didn’t in season 8, a little in season 9, enough for everyone to notice in season 10, even more in season 11, and full force in season 12. They should have Chelsie, Julianne, and Louis or Dmitry judge because they won’t be back and they won’t be all wacko with the scores. Or, do what TC ofirrorball Mayhem suggested, have one new judge each week, a choreographer, pro that’s still competing, someone(how about Jonathan once Anna is eliminated, Edyta, Damian, Alec, Chelsie, Julianne, Inna Brayer, Fabian, Ashly Delgrosso, somone from SCD) they rotate. And, have judging booths about 3-5 ft apart, so they can’t discuss scores with each other. Add an electronic thing that will send the scores to whoever. The judges see each others scores. I love these ideas. Try them. And quit the thing where you bring out a few couples and tell them if they’re safe or in jeaprody. Bring out all of the couples, and surprise the crap out of everyone. I miss that.