Insider Talks Of Rebooting Dancing With The Stars, Says Something Really Needs To Change
An insider from Dancing With The Stars tells Clicker on “Today” “no comment” when asked if there would be judging changes for the next season of Dancing With The Stars. However, this is what the insider did address…
“There’s nothing official yet, but yeah, there’s a lot of talk about rebooting elements of the show, and yes, even when and how long the seasons should run,” the insider explained. “Some of that is just the normal convos that take place (after the last season) wraps. But there is a sense that something really needs to change, and not just cosmetic changes. Ratings slipped (last season) and no one wants to see them slip any more.”
Deciding what to change is the real dilemma.
“It’s all about finding balance. You’ve got to evolve to stay on top, but you’ve got to keep the core of the show, because the fans still want it to feel like the show they love.”
You can read the full article at Clicker on “Today”.
I agree how they need to make some changes just enough to “evolve”,…but, not too many where they lose the core of the show for what we love. I wonder what he/she means about “when and how long the seasons will run”? I like how long the seasons are. However, I’m not always a fan of “two hour” shows except at the very beginning.
We look forward to your thoughts as always. And below is Heidi with her take…
Heidi: Er, gee, there is “a sense that something really needs to change” – wonder where you got that sense, eh?? Even the people with their heads so far up their…well, you know…can see that there are issues. BIG ones. The really sad thing is -I don’t actually trust any of the producers to actually comprehend what the issues really are. They’ll do something to make matters worse. Let’s call it the Hollywood Bubble effect. All that said – this sounds like an insider that’s not really an insider. If you aren’t willing to put your name on your comment, then you can expect a lot of skepticism.
Is They stop the manipulation it would be great for sure. New judges I wouldn”t mind too shirley, mary murff and some guy. I hope They don”t change much because like Heidi said, don”t truste them too.
I agree, something needs to change, and I agree, I don’t really trust the producers to evolve the show correctly. I do think they should come here and read this site more regularly, because PH and C have already given some GREAT ideas!
Here’s some of my thoughts, and I may end up back here revising/adding, as my thoughts “gel.”
1) Keep the show at 2 seasons a year, and keep it at 10 weeks. So, no change in length of show, or number of seasons per year.
2) Rotate the pros. NONE of them can keep up the schedule that is expected of them, and they also need time away from the show to work on outside projects they have, run dance studios, other commitments they would like to have. I have thought for a long time that they should have 2 pools of pros available, one for the fall season, and one for the spring season.
3) Keep the judges TEMPORARILY, but give them STRICT guidelines to abide by… They cannot show favoritism, and they need to score everyone with the same criteria. None of the dancers get a handicap, and none of the dancers are handicapped. And, PH’s idea of a rubric for each dance would go here. And, IF they cannot do this, they just cannot return the following season. One change to straighten up, and if they don’t, they’re gone. Would new judges work? Yes and no…. I’m afraid we’ll get the “BBC” affect, Remember who was there before BBC? I’ve honestly forgotten right now, but I do remember people clamoring for her to be replaced, and they replaced her, and people now wish they hadn’t….
4) NO THEMES!!!!! Yes, theme weeks CAN give us some amazing dances, but it also adds some unneeded stress on the pros… First, they’ve got 4 days to teach a celebrity something brand new, and make it look like they’ve been doing it for years, which can be stressful as it is. Throw in a theme that they have to design the whole performance around, can lead to a LOT of train wrecks! While I’m on that, NO NEW DANCES!!! NO MARATHON DANCES!
5) Take the show back to how they ran in earlier seasons….. 5 weeks of dancing, and then the Group Dance in Week 6. And maybe alternate seasons with the Team Dance in week 6.. Then weeks 7-9 have 2 solo dances, one ballroom and one latin. And in the finale…. One dance style chosen by the judges with a new routine and new music, and the freestyle, with the PAIRS favorite dances on Tuesday nights. It was nice and simple, and it worked WONDERFULLY!
6) ABSOLUTELY NO SURPRISES THROWN AT ANYONE!!! Lay things out at the start of the season, do NOTNOTNOTNOTNOT change ANYTHING mid-stream.
I gotta admit, I don’t think the pro’s stress has anything to do with viewer decline, nor do I think lightening their load will help anything. I just don’t see the evidence of that aspect being a negative to the show and the entertainment value it provides. I mean, I realize they are human and I don’t want anyone getting hurt or burning out too much, but I don’t think that aspect is going to change the feel of the show. The dance quality is so superior than it used to be despite all of the demands that are put on the pros and celebs. I think they’ll only continue to try to throw the unexpected at them.
What I do think will help will be less manipulation on the part of the judges/producers, and good personalities to discover. New pros won’t hurt, as I don’t think we’ll see much innovation or anything that we haven’t seen before from some of the pros like Cheryl. Plus we’d get to discover them as personalities and their styles as well. I could also do without Peta, although I’ll give her one more season to change my mind that her choreography isn’t uninspired and her personality isn’t bland as hell.
I do think the most likely change may be in the form of the judges. I don’t think Paula Abdul is out of the picture since she has much or more credence than Carrie Ann and she is a huge name and people may tune in for the “train-wreck” factor. Or they may go really young if adding a fourth judge is in the cards. Perhaps having a more specific way they judge is also a possibility.
These are my own suggestions:
1. Change of judges–if not possible, then make them come up with a strict criteria for allocating points. Maybe separate scores for technical merit and another for artistic? Just make sure the same criteria applies to all couples—no exemptions! This way, the weird scoring for Shawn’s samba trio (10 from Carrie Ann, 7 from Len) will not happen again. Another option is for judges to give only their comments after each couple’s dance, then rank them accordingly at the end of the show.
2. Back to basics!—with this I mean go back to strictly ballroom and Latin dances please! No more Bollywood, contemporary, hiphOp, etc. It is such a shame that the talent and expertise of the professional dancers are not being put to use wisely. More often than not, bringing these “new” dances lead to disaster.
3, Stop the instant dances, swing marathon, etc— this only allow the judges to manipulate the results per their agenda, or more likely, the producers’
4. No more theme nights, supersized freestyle, choosing dances for your competitor, or any other surprises— I don’t think these worked during the All-Star season. What more on a regular season?
5. Stop manipulating the practice videos of the couples that are shown before they dance—-you know, one couple gets the fun, always laughing,never fighting edit; another gets the too serious, always stressed one, then another gets the always fighting each other vids. I had been an Apolo fan on this season, and I honestly feel that his practice videos with Karina ( they were the very serious, very competitive, stressed out to get perfect scores couple) somehow affected his chances to advance to the finals. Of course, a big reason for that also was the judges low balling him as well as their comments (I honestly feel the “no chemistry” comment really hurt them). And then there was the fight that nobody ever saw. Now we will never know if Apolo voluntarily wanted that fight to be out in the open (he even blogged about it), or if the producers told him to talk about it to create a story of them fighting and then becoming stronger as a couple. I don’t think it worked. I think they never recovered after that. Just my own humble opinion, of course.
Some themes maybe not bothering other pros such as Derek or Karina. But not a lot of these pros are trained in these type of dances. A lot of these pros are strictly ballroom. Derek is undeniably the one benefetting in this type of setting w his wide knowledge and great contemporary background. But even w his creativity, it is just too much for these pros to manage. It may not affect some of the pros quality of works, but you can sense the level of stress and pressure the pros are going through just by reading their tweets .
This is suppose to be fun for the pros as well, but right now, they just couldn’t wait to get out of the show and their contract if given a chance. These pros just aren’t complaining of the overloads and possibly lose their jobs in the process, but you can sense, it’s not as fun as it did for a lot of them.
I would agree, I think it’s good to alternate the pros every season. Same faces everytime w exception of celebs, but same styles and dancing from the pros…..it still feels like watching the same season over and over and became predictable. “Oh yeah, Derek, Cheryl, Maks will make the top 5, and Anna, Tristan, Chelsie will have no chance whatsoever.” that kind of predictability.
They just lost that elements of unpredictability and surprises, cz pretty much we already know how everbody works and how it would turn out.Even Maks’s crazy antics doesn’t surprise us anymore.
JMO
New producers, new editors, no manipulation, period. Especially no manipulation of the video packages. And first on my list is new judges, and a definite syllabus for them to score by. I could be wrong about this, but I don’t think CAI has any experience judging Dancesport events (have no idea about Bruno), but I’d like to see judges that have experience at real competitions – the scores would probably be lower overall, but maybe we would all learn something and be entertained.
I disagree about completely getting rid of themes. On a normal season, I actually really like the theme weeks. But I’m definitely sick of the new themes EVERY WEEK. How about one theme week per season? The pros and celebs get to choose their music. This gives the pros a chance to create something different and entertaining and it gives the audience a chance to be surprised. Besides, some of the other pros also have training in other styles of dance (Chelsie, Mark, Lacey, Anna, etc.). Although, it should be pointed out that only Chelsie has had training in contemporary (and no, I’m not talking about SYTYCD; she has ACTUALLY had training). Mark, Derek, and Lacey were never trained in contemporary. Lacey got a bit of experience from SYTYCD and I’m guessing Mark and Derek just learned along the way.
Definitely agree about the manipulation. It needs to stop.
1. Ditch CAI but please do not saddle us with Abdul or Mary “the mouth” Murph.
2. Strap Bruno to his chair–no pelvic thrusts allowed.
3. Stop writing cute critiques for the judges. Len does not do well trying to disguise that he is reading his “notes” prior to his funny (?) comments.
4. One theme dance per season
5. NEVER EVER AGAIN ALLOW any pro to use ANY OF THE MUSIC from DIRTY DANCING
6. No more siblings allowed as pros.
7. If Mark dances, throw away his spats, his short pants, and sparkly socks. He IS NOT Michael Jackson, regardless of what he thinks.
8. Honest judging. Be sure ALL of the paddles are in that little slot under the judges’ table before the show starts, including the 1, 2, 3! 9. First 2 weeks judges comments only with dancer being ranked. No fan voting either (dangle the carrot!) On Monday of the 3rd week, dancers are scored, and the first elimination is Tuesday–lowest scoring guy, lowest scoring girl leaves after factoring in the judges scores of that evening as well as the call-in votes for that evening.
10. Continue the non-scoring group dances before the final stretch begins. I have always found the rehearsal footage to be alot of fun as are most of the dances
I think that about covers it, for now!
Well, I think they don’t want (need) competent judges, but big names. I also think, that the judges get their “strategy” from TPTB, and they have writers to provide entertaining lines. I will never believe that Len can spontaneoulsy come up with some of his lines. Well, they get to watch the dress rehearsals, so they can prepare anyway, but the judges are give a certain… direction anyway. So it doesn’t matter what judges are there, they will do the same. And they need the classical formula anyway (good looking woman (CAI, Mary murphy), “competent”/knowlegdeable judge (Len, …), “diversity” judge (Bruno)), so we will get something that will fall into those categories, IMO. Fresh faces that will probably act the same way as the ones we have… and anyway, even without biased judges scores and comments, the editing monkeys will still be able to do whatever they want in order to manipulated our minds…
Just look at the other shows. They want the names. I mean… how competent of a judge is Britney Spears? She’d be lost if she wasn’t fed text.
New pros. I think the really need that. Give Henry, Sasha, Sharna a try. Maybe Emma too. I liked Damian. Bring him back. (OMG, the drama with Peta and Maks…)
Drop the nonsense dances (“Espionage” lindy hop? It was nothing but the music and the binoculars). choosing dances for your competitor? That was so fake anyway!
Group dance and team dance, those I like….
Opening and finale pro dances are too crowded. Leave the troupe out for those.
Like Belski said (comment#7), the show is so manipulated, it lost the feeling of (genuine) unpredictability. Don’t underestimate the viewers, show.
Competitive reality shows where the audience is allowed to vote gives the public the feeling that they are part of the show, that they can (at least) influence what happens. But with the feeling that the show is heavily manipulated, the public is not that connected to the show anymore.
Casting – well, there is a formula, like one reality show producer said: “We need our fair share of villains every season. And now we’re very careful in our casting…to develop characters that the audience is going to root for and root against”. Maybe it’s time for a new one.
I can see some changes should be made. But certainly not that many to monkey with it and destroy its character. Then they just might ruin what for the most part is working great. I still love the show is much, I still want the show twice a year. It gives us much pleasure and has become a much anticipated piece of television viewing. If they want to make a few changes fine, but do not do so many it becomes a shell of its former self.
Does anyone know the address where I could write to Conrad green, the producer? Thanks.
I think some good ideas would be a performance score and a technical score…that way you can judge some of the less technical dancers well for giving a good, heartfelt performance but might be lacking some of the technical skill and vice versa- Len loved shawns samba so he could give her a 10 for perfomance but if he wanted to give a 7 for true technical samba then go ahead. I also think that the judges should give their critique after each dance but maybe score them after they see everyone dance? possibly at the end? Some new blood as far as pros is important and instead of getting rid of the judeges, i think adding a younger, fresh face would be nice. I mean the show is still strong and you don’t want to change it soooo much that it doesn’t look the same and ends up going in an even worse direction. A theme week here or there is cool…not every week.
I agree, the show has to evolve in order to keep up the ratings. The themes for the All Star season was out of whack to say the least but its the all star season, throw whatever you can at them, they’ve been on the show before and have some idea of what to expect. In a regular season, I think it would just put way too much pressure on the celeb and pro.
~Take the scoring paddles away from the judges completely and give the voting control just to the viewing audience. Let the judges comment/critisize/praise the celeb without their pro partner standing behind them. I feel sometimes the judges maybe scoring the pro and what he/she can bring.
~I would keep DWTS twice a year because that’s the only time I really watch any amount of tv (gotta get my Maks’ fix somehow, right).
~Here’s an idea out of left field, every week switch the pros. For example, if this week Maks is dancing with Kirstie, make him dance with say Melissa the week after. Yes it might cause some confusion but it would make some interesting rehearsal footage.
~We have to remember this is sort of a reality tv show and the producers, writers, editing crew are there for the drama effect. Yes some pros/celebs get the happy happy joy joy rehearsal footage and others get the boohoo/stress filled footage. It rots me but I don’t have control over that and I move on.
~How about there wouldn’t be an elimination until week 4, giving the celebs time to get over their initial shock of the show.
~Switching up the pros would help I think, some pros have been there since season one, while others have taken a season off. It might give them a chance to recharge their battery and come back with a new additude/ideas. Case in point, Cheryl. I like her but I found the last couple of seasons her choreography isn’t up to par.
Love the post as well as everybody’s comments – producers really should not only read but use this blog as a tool – a lot of very good ideas from everybody.
My opinion:
1. Shake the judges panel – I would replace CAI with someone a bit younger, hipper and much more fair.
2. Do not use judges to manipulate the audience – let them say what they really think, and no “not enough content” nonsense, it has to be meaningful and useful.
3. If themes and/or new styles of dance are used – think about them ahead of time, inform pros at the beginning of the season – pros will have time to prepare for this – it will eliminate the advantage that some of them (Derek, Mark) have over others (Tony, Maks), and pick just one-two new styles – not 9 or 10. Then we will compare apples to apples and not apples to oranges.
4. Absolutely no “ralphing” – or blatant favoritism for the “family” members.
5. More diverse packages – show different sides of ALL contestants and pros, it is really boring at this point to watch Maks yell and Karina be all work and no play.
6. Do not keep pros forever – let them sit out a season or two, bring in new talent, but not too many at once.
Well I say alternate all of the pros not just pick on some like Derek and Cheryl they all have been there a while so I like what the other person said have pros for the fall season and then have pros for the spring season
That way we get to see something different for each cycle of the show.
Everyone needs there job so I say get rid of no one just alternate
Give everyone one a good parnter I know I speak not only for myself when I say we want to see everyone with a good partner this will definately make for a good season a good competitive one.
Belski, according to DEREK, he has no contemporary background – and he certainly wasn’t trained in Bhangra. You’ll just have to admit that he’s just that good 🙂 – of course, this is the guy with no Tap background who was hanging with the pros after a month or two of training. He’s also very multifaceted in entertainment, which I think causes him to be a lot more creative than some of the other pros. He seems to be an actual director, more than just a choreographer.
Whoever said that they have to remove the judges entirely and leave it to the audience?? HELL NO. The audience is just as bad or worse than the judges. The audience kept Bristol and Kate LONG past their self life. Same for Cloris. And many, many more. The audience is just as twisted as the judges. We need the judges to do THEIR job so that the wack ass portion of the audience in neutralized.
THE JUDGES DO NOT WATCH DRESS REHEARSAL – for the last time. And quit saying that like it’s true when we know that it’s not.
This may be overly technical, but some of the camera work this season made me crazy. Biggest case in point is Shawn and Derek’s rumba. As soon as Derek crossed his legs over the side, the camera focused on the smoke into which he disappeared, to the total exclusion of Shawn, so that finally the screen was nothing but smoke. And it stayed that way for several seconds. It was utterly ridiculous not to have Shawn in the final shots. We really didn’t need an extended close-up of the smoke. Especially because of the nature of that dance, I was disappointed and angry that we didn’t get to see Shawn as the dance concluded. The second example is from Shawn and Derek’s freestyle. Just as Derek broke the final pose the camera moved, so we didn’t get to see Shawn and Derek and the fierce five celebrate what they had just accomplished. Why on earth they chose that exact moment to switch to the audience I’ll never understand. When the camera finally returned to them, all we really got to see was Tom telling Shawn and Derek to hurry up. Very very disappointing. Since there is always more than one camera filming, they could at least post a re-edited version online to put back what was left out. This stuff re-aggravates me every time.
I think they made the right choice in the rumba for dramatic effect. As for the end of the dance, so what? It’s a live show – occasionally they make a wrong choice.
The only problem I have with the camera shots are all the overhead shots. I don’t know why they think we need to see them from the ceiling when the entire live audience is watching from the floor.
I would limit the studio. Close it on Tuesday and Saturday. The dancers would be fresher, healthier, more spontaneous. Even pro athletes don’t train seven days a week.
Actually, I think the quality of the results shows needs to be better. Have a new pro contest again. Have Tom, Brooke (if she can), Len, Carrie Ann, Bruno do routines on a Tuesday. Realistically, many earlier seasons were better because of the caliber of dancers like Nicole, Jennifer, Kristi.
I heartily agree with Diane K. Those overhead camera shots make me dizzy. I mean, come on, this isn’t a Busby Berkley musical with all those cool overhead shots of 100 dancers lying on the floor in a circle with their feet touching. I just want to watch the DWTS dancers as the audience sees them, and that means not from the ceiling, please. Just my 2 cents.
Shorter seasons of 8 or 9 weeks might lessen burnout. Rather than alternating pros, I’d prefer alternating celebrity fields, maybe by age. For example, under-40 and over-40 seasons. That would create fairer competition, and possibly decrease some manipulations. It also could increase rotation of pros, based on their relative abilities with different age groups. Demo ratings of “senior” seasons might be a concern, but the most watched season featured Kirstie Alley and Ralph Macchio.
Sorry – I remembered it was talked about here a while ago:
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# Princess Heidi commented on May 20, 2012:
Gigi, Maria made it VERY clear that the judges see the dress rehearsal. I don’t think they actually SIT in the ballroom, but she was very clear that they do see it.
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If in the meanwhile you got different info and talked about it here, I have to apologize, I haven’t seen it. I am sorry. My bad.
Definitely a new judge at least and a scoring syllabus that prevents bias as much as possible. I would get rid of CAI but to replace her with Paula would be horrible for me. She’s even more annoying, if that’s possible. I like Shirley Ballas but don’t know that she could be objective with her own son on the show.
I wouldn’t mind one fall season of the show if it’s going to be this annoying and redundant and I would love for the pros to have that extra time to do other things and the burnout is not pleasing to watch. Although I do like Vogue’s idea of two season with a revolving list of pros. That actually satisfies getting to see the show (if they make it worth it), twice a year and still allow pros to not have to do both seasons each year. But I don’t know how many “stars” they can come up with that I would want to see after all these years. It’s too predictable and forgettable: reality stars and Disney children who I don’t know, don’t care about and annoy me.
I definitely agree with getting back to more of the traditional ballroom dances. I like the other styles but it was supposed to be a ballroom show and not every single dancer is trained or knows all of these other styles. If they’re going to make it a staple to add new styles then it’s not the same show and just say that and get all new dancers and change the concept but that’s not what I signed up for although I enjoy those who can do other styles, it’s a disconnect to have those who can’t.
Again I’m just not seeing how pro burnout=lower ratings and how lessening the practice time=more viewers. This is an argument that I often see people making and I just don’t see how it translates into viewership. What makes the average viewer watch a show is to see good dancing and/or good stories that they feel are genuinely relatable and heartwarming, or the occasional curiosity like Kate G or Bristol. I do think new pros that are GOOD can help because they’ll have the shiny, novel factor and can bring a sense of newness to the show, but I don’t think it’s because the other pros are overworked, but rather that the audience knows what to expect out of many of the current pros and we aren’t seeing much of a journey with them anymore. That’s the other factor that Kelly and Val had going for them this season, in addition to the showmance – he is a relatively new pro, and she was on a really short season years ago, so there was a sense of discovery with both Kelly and Val, and people will tune in and vote to see the story unfold. Everyone else’s story is pretty predictable.
Hmmm…I was talking about Maria, but I’ve never thought that the judges see the dress – and yes, it was confirmed multiple times by our source that they do NOT see it.
I’m with you, Fig. I don’t get the logic in that argument at all.
Thanks Heidi
The show definitely needs a total reformatting IMO.
First, I think it needs leveled playing field as possible. Give all the pros a chance to win each season and let all the fanbases happy and excited to start w. Need to eliminate that thoughts of many ( including the pros) of obvious favoritism and disparity. If they give some pros a ringer, then might as well do it for everybody. They give someone a two left feet, well, let it be a battle of terrible dancers for everybody. I just think the pros will all be more motivated to put on a show, if they all know each and everyone of them has the chance winning. Not just the popular pros.
Second, I just feel that Team dances are such a big hit to audience and the viewers. Why not do the whole season in teams and just merge in the semi. 12 couples and split them in to two teams. They get marked as a team rather than individuals. More camaraderie and fun for all the couples and nobody wants to be the weakest link. Each couple dancing different dance vs the other couple from other team w same type of dance. More like face off each week from each teams certain couples . Draw the couples each week facing off and the dance they face off w. Judges mark them as individuals, but end of the night, the total scores will add up for whole teams. Lower team will have the elimination.
I just think it would be more fun for the fans and teams themselves to work as a group. Everybody helps in the team and therefore less pressure individually. Better teamworks, and fans likewise are cheering for teams rather than one couple at a time. They tend to stick around more even if their fav has been eliminated. If 1 team keeps losing a member, then a chance to steal a couple from other team to even up.
Just my thoughts on how I would make changes if ever.
I liked Kathleen’s (22) idea of different ages in the different seasons. It really isn’t fair to have a Florence Henderson compete with a Shawn Johnson. This would give a reason for the disney kids to be on too. We did all come to know & love Kyle Massey.
It would be cool for soap fans to have an all soap star season (with 2 abc soaps canceled they should be able to find a few). Some primetime shows are like soaps too, so there would be stars everyone knows.
Alternating pros for the seasons was a good idea too. Split the pros who are well known and add new ones for each season. I like the familiar faces, but new ones are always welcome.
Have a currently competitive pro couple demonstrate each dance at the beginning of each show as well as having the judges stick to a syllabus and quit with the personal comments. Len might not like props but the rest of us appreciate the atmosphere they lend to the performance. And a 4th guest judge each week that currently judges competitions would be good for the other judges and the contestants.
Wish the producers would read all these comments!
Could we get a comment from a producer please so we can know that you’re taking the time to read these comments? It would go a long way to your credibility. Just sayin’……………….
I’m not sure I agree about the age issues. On the one hand I do, on the other I think that if they actually have a syllabus that they score the dances by, the age wont’ make a difference. I think the way it’s done right now it’s MORE unfair for Shawn than it is for a Kirstie or a Florence. They score Shawn much harder than they do Kirstie when both dances might have all the required elements for a given dance. So one person is older – so what? Why should Shawn (or Apolo) be penalized or picked to death while Kirstie gets a pass?? That’s just as ageist. Kirstie and Florence are the extremes of course. The real question is – who would have won, Shawn or Jennifer?? Or Shawn versus Donny. Those are just two people who were aged 50 or older who won the show – Jennifer beat someone 30 years younger than her (Kyle and Bristol) and someone 20 years younger than her (Brandy). I think it’s the *judging* that has to be fixed, not the casting. And really, did Kirstie or Florence ever really think they had a shot to win? Or did they go on the show wanting to learn to dance and/or lose weight??
I don’t think the judges need a syllabus, nor do I think they need to give everyone a ringer or not. After all, if you look at their ability and fanbases from day one, who would you rather have – Ty, a virtual unknown that couldn’t dance a lick or say a Lawrence Taylor – a popular football player that wasn’t a terrible dancer. Personality accounts for so damn much in this show that people keep voting for people they “like” – and that’s okay! I preferred Kyle over Jennifer even though she was obviously a better dancer.
I do think the team idea mentioned upthread might be something the producers look to – not in the form of all team dances, but having the Survivor-type thing where a team can earn immunity or something, alliances and such they can keep out of the gate or switch them around if they want to cause drama. No it’s not “dance-focused” but it’d be a new thing and something that might get people willing to tune in again.
Having a syllabus or same-aged stars won’t. Consistent, honest judging that is less manipulative IS possible without creating strict rules to govern each dance. I think that now that they’ve opened the door to new dance styles they aren’t going to close that completely, and again it’s not a strict dance competition. Just be a little less aggressive with their high standards for good dancers and a little more assertive with the bad ones. They USED to be like that, so we know it’s possible. That kind of judging won’t get new people to tune in, but it’ll keep old viewers from tuning out and again this is all about their ratings.
I definitely agree with Figamentation that there should be a way to earn immunity. Like, if you’re in the top three in terms of judges’ points, you’re exempt from voting, at least up until week 8. Then it becomes a free for all. But ONLY if the judges are consistent in their judging. That is where I think a syllabus might actually be useful. Back in season 9 (in week 4 I think) they would have the pros demonstrate certain moves before each latin and ballroom round, and the judges would score technique based on those certain moves.
Yeah, you can’t do the immunity thing when the judges play favorites and are manipulative as hell. The way they are scoring now they are already trying to give immunity to those with “potential”.
@Fig – I don’t look at the syllabus as being for the judges, I look at it as being for us, the viewers. 😉 It’s one way to keep them from playing favorites – everybody gets scored, based on specific steps/moves for specific dances. None of this relativistic hooey (the “sliding scale of ability”, as it was called in another thread). If some celeb just can’t dance (*cough*cough*BRISTOL!*cough*cough), then give them the score they deserve, instead of a 7 because they “improved over last week”.
I’m just tired of the manipulation, and I want some clear-cut way of seeing that it’s stopped.
Just give me straight up ballroom dancing, honest and fair judging, and a slightly shorter season (8 weeks would be fine – towards the end of the season I start to get bored and start watching competing shows). And a change to 1 of the judges and maybe a 4th ‘guest’ judge (who has no favorites and no axe to grind) might be a good thing. And better celebrities, although this would be the hardest change to make because better celebrities are (i) too busy, (ii) don’t want to embarrass themselves, (iii) would have to be paid more money to devote 3 months of their lives to the show, or (iv) don’t consider the show to have a high enough profile for them to devote so much of their time and potentially put their reputations as big stars at risk (i.e., if they get voted off early it might make advertisers/sponsors/movie companies wonder about their real popularity, which could affect how much they get paid for their real work). Good luck to the producers.
Oh, I don’t think they NEED immunity or anything of the sort, I could just see the producers making some kind change that might resemble something of the sort. They have already begun a way of “sticking it” to other celebs in the form of choosing dances for one another, it just seems like a possible progression to teams, immunity, maybe even alliances and stuff. I don’t hope for this, though.
As it stands, I personally don’t mind the sliding scale of ability. It’s been used for a long time to a degree that I believed was true to the spirit of the show – stars with varying degrees of experience learning to dance for nothing more than more exposure, some money, some fun, and at the end for one lucky person a shiny trophy. I know I love the celebs that can produce great routines early on and those that grow into better dancers during the course of the show, as well as those that get by a little bit more on personality than skill. I tune in because I want to be entertained and for me sometimes that’s great dancing like Shawn and Apolo, or great personalities like Kyle or Ty, or sometimes just seeing the joy on the face of someone like Nancy Grace, who I didn’t even like prior to the show.
I only have a problem with a few seasons worth of the rank manipulation of the packages and judges comments, not the scores themselves, really. I just know what my slightly-trained eyes tell me about the quality of a dance, and if it’s not great don’t say it is, sliding scale or no. Be honest with the couple and the viewing audience. I think it’s their comments that have a greater effect than the numbers themselves, because that’s what sticks in the brain moreso than someone got .5 points lower than someone else. Ravishing praise for Melissa and tough love for Shawn and Apolo all the way til the end – despite what was obvious to many – that’s the stuff that reeked this season. However, I don’t think you can take away the judges ability to qualify rather than quantify their scores. Sometimes a routine is 10-worthy just because it’s so damn fun, and sometimes a technically perfect dance leaves something emotional to be desired. Just stop trying to storyboard so darn much, stop pushing the celebs that comprise the ABC family so darn forcefully down our throats, and keep me entertained with a combination of good dancers and good personalities. That’s all I ask out of DWTS.
I don’t think that it’s unfair to expect more from young dancers than from middle-aged dancers, or more from middle-aged dancers than from senior dancers. There are reasons why the real ballroom world defines older age groups starting at 35. As commendable as it was for Donny Osmond and Jennifer Grey to win MBT’s, they have been the only winners over the age of 37. That becomes even more exceptional when you consider that nearly half the contestants have been over 37. Not sure that a syllabus can make things more equitable for middle-aged or senior-aged dancers, unless maybe there were different syllabi adjusted to different age groups.
I’m sick of hearing everyone whine about how manipulated the rehearsal packages are, because they really are not. The mood/overbearing feeling of the rehearsal is what you end up seeing in the packages. And of course if you get in a fight or break down crying, that WILL get used. This is not manipulation. They do not MAKE some people appear to fight, and other couples appear to get along. Karina and Apolo seemed to get along great in interviews and outside the studio, but their rehearsals really WERE tension filled, a lot of hard work and stress.
And to whoever doesn’t believe that Len comes up with his own funny lines, he absolutely does. If it looks like he’s reading it off a paper, it’s because he wrote it down himself during the dance. I’m sure he has a few that he plans in advance and keeps them in his head for a good opportunity to use them. He takes great pride in coming up with them, and I seriously doubt the producers could come up with anything as funny as he does.