Dancing with the Stars Season 19 – “What do you mean I’m a ringer??” Update
Introduction
A couple of seasons ago, I created a set of criteria with which to measure the benefits some dancers on DWTS have compared to the other dancers. That is, ringers versus non-ringers. I attempted to be as logical and scientific as possible, although it’s impossible to remove all subjectivity from the issue. But it’s far better than simply saying “so and so isn’t a ringer, IMO”. In your opinion? If your opinion is purely subjective with no effort at logical or rational thought, then what good is it??
No good at all, actually. The original series sprung from an effort to debunk the old, tired and stupid claim that the only reason Derek does well is because he gets all the good partners and no one else gets them. Utter BS, of course. It would be a good idea to read that series before starting this one as I can’t guarantee that I’ll include all the same rationale this second time around and I don’t take well to discussing a subject with someone who is so rude as to not read the blogs.
Of course, certain people who didn’t like the results of that research tried desperately to turn the argument around and claim: “Well, Derek never gets any ‘bad’ partners, like Kate Gosselin”. Um, there has only been ONE Kate Gosselin and ONE Wendy Williams – it’s not at all like everyone is getting those kinds of partners except Derek. Tony is the only one who gets them and there’s good reason for that one, I would say. But that’s a different subject altogether. 🙂
Things to Remember When Discussing “Ringers”
- How do we define a “ringer”? Well, we define it as someone who has a clear advantage of some kind over the other contestants, be it dance experience or size of fanbase. Sure, there are lots of other possible advantages – one person is really likeable (Kellie) while another person is a bitch (Joanna) – but that is neither measurable nor objective. Not even close to objective. For every person who loves Kellie, there is probably one who thinks she’s an idiot. And for every person that claimed to hate Joanna, there were more who really like her or grew to like her as they saw her on DWTS. Do all athletes have a clear advantage and are therefore ringers? Of course not. They might have the work ethic, but many of them have characteristics that work against them being a good dancer and a lot of them don’t have a fanbase that overlaps with the DWTS demographic. Football players, for example, may or may not have large fanbases, but most don’t overlap with the DWTS demo. And not all of them have gone far on the show – their success depends heavily on their personality and dance ability – therefore you can’t really label them ringers. It’s not a “guarantee” of success. Then there are the athletes who have some sort of dance training as part of their sport training – like Ice Dancers and Figure Skaters. And if you put them on the show shortly after they win gold? Look out. And seriously look out if they are hugely popular even years after winning gold, like Kristi Yamaguchi.
Think BIG, clear advantages over every day advantages. Advantages that, on paper, appear to put that person out in front of the others. On paper, for example, Brandy and Jennifer Grey are the same, with the exception of Jennifer being 20 years older than Brandy. Both went to a performing arts high school. Both learned to dance for a movie. But what advantage did Jennifer have over Brandy? Dirty Dancing – an iconic movie with iconic characters. Brandy? Cinderella. No contest. So, Jennifer is a fanbase ringer and Brandy isn’t really a ringer at all. Could both be labeled dance ringers? Well, I suppose they could, but Brandy would win the label on that one, since Jennifer’s ‘one dance for a movie’ was 25 plus years ago AND she has screws and plates in her neck. Learning one dance for a movie is hardly the same as dancing on Broadway or dancing in a boy/girl band. When you’re in a movie, you get as many takes as you need to get it right. Dance on stage and you better know what the hell you’re doing cuz there are no ‘do overs’. For that reason, Brandy isn’t really a ringer, while Marissa Jarret Winokur is a low level ringer. Another example?? Donny Osmond. I think Courtney and I knew he was going to win the instant he was announced. Why? Extremely rabid fanbase who directly coincides with the DWTS typical demographic AND ballroom lessons before the show started. Therefore, he’s a dual attribute ringer – about as close to a guaranteed win as one can get on this show.
- Sometimes advantages are cancelled out by larger disadvantages. What good does your dance experience do you if you’re 50, 60 years old? Probably not much, when competing against younger, equally talented people. Seriously, if you don’t believe this then old age karma is going to get you. You gonna call Florence Henderson a ringer? I don’t think so. 🙂
- Hind Sight is 20/20 – avoid revisionist history. The big thing to remember when talking about ringers and horrible partners is that hind sight is 20/20 – it’s very, very easy to point and complain when the season is already over and revisionist history has set in. The best example of this phenomenon is when Derek was handed Lil’ Kim and Maks got Denise Richards. Oh such happiness that Derek the golden boy had gotten the ex-con, controversial woman who surely couldn’t dance, while Maks got Brooke Burke reincarnate. She was beautiful and young, so surely she could dance, right? Ummm….LOL. Then they made the exact same mistake with Joanna Krupa. This proves the point that you can’t tell from just looking at some people whether they’re going to be great on DWTS or not. And it also proves that Karma will get you if you rejoice in the apparent misfortune of others.
Remember – these people don’t actually do a dance audition to get on the show. People that seem like they might be good (Denise Richards) can turn out to be horrible and vice versa (Lil’ Kim). So, how can one complain about Kate Gosselin when you didn’t know she would be a horrible dancer just from looking at her? I suppose that those who watched her show could suspect that she was a horrible beyotch, but would that have mattered if she turned out to be a great dancer? Not to Tony and not to Tony’s fans. It only matters now cuz she was a crappy dancer too.
- How does the contestant look on paper? I attempt to look at the contestants ‘on paper’ and think of how they appeared before they had even danced a step. It’s difficult, and I may not always get it right. There are contestants that I waffle on to this day, such as Joey Lawrence. However, if you want to argue with me about who’s a ringer and who isn’t, you’re going to need PROOF – saying “in my opinion” doesn’t cut it in this instance. You also need more than a Wikipedia entry, as I can go in and change those things myself. For example, on paper there is no difference between Jennie Garth and Shannen Doherty. None. Similar backgrounds, similar age – only difference is that one had Derek and one didn’t. Was Jennie better liked? Maybe – but you can’t vote *against* someone on DWTS. When it comes to actual advantages (which is the definition of “ringer” on this site), they’re pretty much on even footing. Likewise Denise Richards and Joanna Krupa. Joanna went farther and she’s the one with the supposed big negative stacked against her.
- Dance “ability” is not the same thing as dance “experience”. This is a big one that a lot of people who are not prone to critical thinking have a lot of trouble with. The latter makes you a ringer, the former doesn’t. Brooke Burke – lots of natural talent, NO actual experience. Same with Kellie Pickler, Audrina Patridge, Chynna Phillips….there’s a long list. But really, if you’re not paired with Derek and end up being a good dancer, you’re less likely to get labeled a ringer in any case – even if you ARE a ringer. This is where the “all Derek’s partners are ringers” idiotic argument comes into play.
- Just cuz you sing, it doesn’t mean you dance too. This is where a few lines have to be drawn. There are lots and lots of singers in the history of DWTS and the tendency some have is to label them all ringers. Not so. I would say that most of them AREN’T ringers, actually. Trust me when I say I had to watch a lot of (bad) music videos to make my determinations on the singer ringers (ha) versus non-ringers. Swaying to the beat or walking to the beat is NOT dancing. The Pussycat Dolls and Spice Girls do a form of dancing. Aaron Carter and Romeo really don’t.
- Don’t talk to me about Performing Arts High School unless the person in question is in their early 20’s. Seriously, not everyone is Derek Hough and does everything well. Now, if someone went to a performing arts high school and continued dancing right up to their appearance on DWTS? We can talk.
For how I determined who was a ringer of some type and who wasn’t (besides the list above) read “What do you mean, I’m a Ringer, Part II” as I don’t want to take the space to discuss it again and my methods haven’t really changed.
Update on the Ringer Stats
Here are the category breakdowns, complete with qualifying asterisks (Click to enlarge):
As you can see, I don’t believe that all ringers are created equally. I think this should be obvious. Is someone who was a professional cheerleader the same as someone who danced professionally – like, say, Melissa versus Mya?? Well, I sure don’t think so. I think there is a level of complexity to what Mya does versus what Melissa does – but both clearly have an advantage over someone like Jennie Garth or Denise Richards.
The same goes for people with huge fanbases. You should know by now that the key demographic that watches DWTS is middle aged women. So, intuitively, you should recognize that someone like Jennifer Grey is going to have a leg up on someone like Cody Simpson. Sure, Cody had a couple million Twitter followers to Jen’s tens of thousands – but Jennifer starred in an iconic movie years ago that matches up perfectly with the DWTS demo. Cody? Not so much. The youngsters aren’t watching this show that much.
Of course, the DWTS fans can grow to really like someone whose fanbase doesn’t necessarily coincide with the typical demo and carry them a long way on the show. And some young fanbases are cray cray – see Zendaya and James Maslow. Both have huge, young fanbases who clearly voted like crazy. But it wasn’t enough to win.
This is where I insert a side bar: too many people confuse votes with ratings. This is ridiculous. The youngsters may not always be good voters, but they most certainly will watch the show if the object of their affection is on. Like we harp on constantly here at PureDWTS, a huge twitter following doesn’t guarantee a long stay on the show, nor a win. I think it can carry you a few weeks if you can dance, for sure. But no guarantees. But this is NOT the same thing as those folks bringing in the ratings. I’ll be doing a separate post over the next day or so that discusses ratings, but I have to lay it out there: there is a reason they continually do things and get celebs that appeal to a younger demographic – IT WORKS. If it didn’t they would stop doing it. They bring in these young folks with the huge twitter followings (Cody, James, Zendaya, Bethany, etc) to up the ratings in the key demo. But think about it – that doesn’t guarantee a win because the average viewer is a middle aged woman and the show has 13 MILLION viewers – Cody’s 2 million twitter followers is chump change in that setting. If his followers aren’t good voters, he doesn’t stand a chance. But they’re still watching, aren’t they. Yes. This is why I laugh when certain fans say that the ratings will crash if their pro isn’t on. Um…none of the pros have more than 600k followers and you think that a single one of them has a bigger impact on the ratings than all the other celebs and pros combined? More than those with the huge twitter followings? Get real. Here’s a hint: there was ONE person who had a noticeable, measurable and POSITIVE impact on the ratings outside the margin of error and his name is Enrique.
ANYWAY, I digress. The female pros clearly get the short end of the stick when it comes to ringers. As I’ve said in the past, the reasons for this should be obvious. They are dancing with men, who are less likely to get involved in dance from an early age and onward. Which is sad, IMO. To this day there are some parents who won’t put male children (even those who show a desire and an aptitude) in dance classes out of fear. Fear that they will become gay or are gay or whatever. It’s sickening. I speak from personal experience here, unfortunately. Enough said. Anyway, the male pros are predisposed to have a higher number of ringers simply because they are dancing with women and even in the women who aren’t working in dance, they often have some level of experience in dance. Not always, of course, but the odds are higher than they are for the men. Let’s look at the female pros first:
Yeah, an actual paucity of ringers. Yowza. Really, what is there to say other than Karina has been fortunate. Karina is also the female pro most likely to get hosed by the judges. As for the dancers this season, Whitney is the only one to get an actual ringer, but that is only barely. I researched this one a good bit and while Alfonso claims to be a professional tapper, I can find NO video of him tapping over the age of ten, or however old he was when he was on Broadway. And don’t give the “carlton” as experience. I’ve watched several videos of him and “the Carlton” and if you can teach it to a flash mob of non-dancers it ain’t all that. He is BARELY a ringer – the fact that he is 42 years old and was on Broadway 30 years ago, I felt bad even labeling him as that. Courtney helped me out and we couldn’t find any REAL experience for the rest of them. Tommy might know a salsa, but he’s 72 years old. Betsey goofed around…but again, the lady ain’t no spring chicken. As for fan favorites – I don’t know if any one of the men qualifies as an audience ringer. I guess Alfonso might be the closest, but I’m a bit skeptical.
As for the Male pros? Well, they’ve been blessed. Everyone has gotten a ringer or two – no one’s been left out, at least not the current or recent pros.
Talking about this season, for a moment, we couldn’t find anything at all on Sadie or Lolo. Betsey seems like she goofed around when she was young, but now she’s 72 and anything she did before the age of 50 is pretty moot. Bethany? Well, as much as people would love to point and scream ringer, the girl had hip hop and jazz dance lessons when she was 13. Nothing out of the ordinary. Nothing different than what MOST pre-teens, including myself, had. And certainly far less than Janel, our resident ringer with dance training. And lots of it, apparently – jazz, tap, broadway, ballet and hip hop. Much more current than either Bethany or Lea. Speaking of Lea – this is also an experienced dancer. Ballet to be precise. Of course, her ballet was more than 30 years ago so it’s kinda ridiculous to put her in the same category as Janel. She did have little bits of Broadway style dancing in recent years, but nothing tremendous. In terms of audience, I would say that Bethany has a leg up on her competition, but the question with such a fanbase is if they will actually vote.
When I look at this chart, I have to laugh at those who say Derek always gets the best partners. I mean, we can argue about which level a ringer someone should be, but that doesn’t change the fact that Derek has had a wide spectrum of partners with vastly different ages, experiences and sizes. It’s quite surprising seeing it in print. What is also not so surprising, in print, is the fact that Val has been extremely blessed with ringers. Why he raises his hands to the sky to thank god for Janel is beyond me. Not that she’s not great, she is – but most ALL of his partners have been great. Hell, Val has had more ringers than Alec had actual partners. I wonder what Louis, who always bitched about Derek’s partners, would say about Val’s? Or has he been drinking his own koolaide? I suspect yes.
Even poor, poor Tony (snerk) has had a couple ringers and more than a couple “lucky gets” – I’m so shocked to see that they’ve not all been Kate Gosselin! (End Sarcasm) 🙂 And for those of you who were praising god that Maks “finally got a great partner” last season – well, you might want to invest in some ginkgo biloba. He’s done as good, if not better, than Derek in both ringers AND lucky gets.
At the end of the day, there are many factors that go into who gets what partner. Yes, there is some degree of putting the popular pros with people likely to stick around – but that’s no longer just Derek. Hell, it was NEVER just Derek. I dare you to try to convince me otherwise while sounding rational. They have REASONS for why certain pros get certain partners – of course a lot of it has to do with personality, height and other mysterious factors. I still maintain that, aside from last season, they don’t care who wins the show. But they do want the pros with serious fanbases to stick around for a while, so those fanbases stick around for a while. But far more important is the celebrity’s fanbase, if they have one. In many cases, the celebrities have fanbases that far outshine the pro’s they are dancing with (and sometimes the reverse is true). The celebrities who have huge fanbases (or who are just seen as good gets by the producers) often ask for particular pros. See Derek/Jennifer, Derek/Nicole, Maks/Erin, Maks/Kirstie and probably many more we don’t know about or that I’ve forgotten.
What’s the deal with Val’s partners, because he seems to be the anomaly and he certainly hasn’t been around long enough to gain the popularity of Derek, Mark or Maks? Well, perhaps they’re trying to replace Maks and they need to get him to stick around so people can grow to love him? (Doubt it – even I prefer Maks to Val.) Or perhaps they’re leveling the playing field? Let’s face it – Derek goes to the finals or semi-finals most of the time regardless of his partner. Mark and Val can’t say the same. They can be fairly confident that Derek will stick around for a while no matter who they hand him – the same can’t be said, yet, for Val. Or perhaps Val’s great partners are a result of Derek’s needs (and they’ll meet his needs to keep him). He’s pretty adamant that he needs to be inspired, challenged. So they gave him Amy, a woman with no feet. Then they give him Bethany – a young woman who is an entrepreneur, who was bullied, and who pulled herself up and made something of herself before the age of 18. That leaves the “ringers” to Val – and I have to say, Val seems to need the ringer (and the potential win) far more than Derek does. I think part of Derek’s partners – and as a result, Mark and Val’s partners – are also about keeping Derek challenged. And a happy Derek is a Derek who continues on DWTS well past the time he should have moved on.
But besides all that…..Really, I have to commend the producers because if there is one thing they seem to do well these days, is put the right celeb with the right partner, from a personality standpoint. Most of the partners seem well matched, such that everyone is happy. And shouldn’t that be their goal?? Happy celebs, great entertainment? It works for me. 🙂
Wow Miss! Just excellent again. I especially loved when you wrote this:
Isn’t that the truth!
OMG APPAULDS this commentary again! +1 on EVERYTHING! WELL SAID!
And I agree…if anyone is a “ringer” this season…it’s Janel!!!
I really like this post
Thanks PH! I can see how much work you put into this very good and interesting read.
I guess you leave Jane Seymour off the ringer list because of her age? To me, her carriage and elegance of a dancer really shined through. She seems way more ringerish than Jen Grey with such extensive training. Her age difference from her partner was comparable, and I had the idea she was more currently involved in projects.
Thanks! 🙂
Janel is the biggest ringer this season. Unfortunately, the showmance, and not her dancing ability will be the highlight for this couple this season. Puke!
1 word 3 syllables A-MAZ-ING darling. What a post. The best post I have ever read on this aspect of DWTS
Great write-up Heidi! You make some very valid points! LOVE the part about the revisionist history–20/20 vision stuff! I distinctly remember the Derek haters gleefully cheering that FINALLY he got an overweight partner and there’s no way he’ll win! Corbin was sure to get the trophy that season. Once they saw Amber dance, then the ringer-talk began. Well, well, well look who won?
I’d say in my opinion, as it stands right now, based on his previous dancing ability and his fan-base given the demographic of the show, that Alfonso Ribiero is the biggest ringer this sesason! If Derek weren’t on the show this season, I’d be voting for Alfonso. If for some reason, Bethany and Derek don’t make it to the finals, I’ll be voting for him.
@Sandy, which really confuses me re Val. What he was able to do with Meryl as opposed to what Maks was churning out was awesome. With all the great partners he has had, and with a “trained” celeb this season, why can’t he just give us great routines and leave the showmance alone.
Oh, I definitely don’t agree that Alfonso is the biggest ringer. I think he’s probably tied with Janel and Lea. Alfonso and Lea have fanbases that probably mesh with DWTS and both have dance experience from a long time ago. Janel is up there because her dance experience is much more recent, and she’s younger – but she may not have the fanbase the other two do.
Glad you liked the post though. 🙂
Thanks Nathan. 😉
Awesome post, Princess H! Indeed, hindsight is 20/20. This is why I’ve been saying that I prefer to come to this site over others because the articles/posts are relevant and well-thought-out. Love also the fact that BS is not tolerated here.
Based on your list, Princess H, I’d say Mark is also very much blessed. Out of the 15 seasons he’s been on (including this one), he has only 5 partners that don’t fall in any of the categories you’ve mapped out. Also, most of his partners are on the young-ish side, none over 40 at the time they competed.
Looking forward to your “ratings” article.
Thanks everyone.
I don’t remember why I left Jane Seymore off the list, Jess. I assume that if she had any experience at all that it was many years ago – it’s possible that I didn’t find any experience when I was doing my research. The asterisks are new – maybe I should give her one.
ETA: I did some brief looking again and I see nothing to indicate dance experience for Jane. Sometimes people are just graceful.
What a great post!! I had thought Alfonso would be the ringer this season because I didn’t know who Janel was. But it remains to be seen if she is likable to the viewers who vote. She may go the route of Christiana Milan. Even though most of the men have no dance experience they all seem funny and or interesting, except Tavis. He’s my pick to go home first.
Forgot to add that I love how you listed out all the celebs for each pro. Really puts the favoritism claims against Derek into perspective.
It does, doesn’t it? When you look at the celebs side by side and over the years, it’s a lot harder to point fingers – even without any color coding at all. That’s what struck me too, this time. When I first did it, it was a lot closer, but Maks had the most ringers. Not it doesn’t even seem that close. These tables make it pretty hard to claim that Derek always gets the “young” one or the “fit” one or whatever they try to use to explain away his success.
But like I said – I don’t think Derek particularly wants the ringer. He wants a challenge and he’s met that particular one.
Janel dances okay, but it’s all about choreo and Val sucks at choreo. He did a good job on Meryl’s Argentine Tango, but Derek choreo is far more superior. I think Derek let Maks win last season because Derek and Amy could have easily danced circles around M&M. Derek feels like Val is owed nothing and he’s going to take Janelskiy down on that dance floor. Derek feels that Val thinks he got this season in the bag, but Derek loves a challenge and Val gave him one. 😀
I thought Jane Seymour was in training to join the Royal Ballet in England but she had to stop due to an injury. Or am I thinking of someone else? Great post and thanks
Great Post princess Heidi. Now someone needs to make a post telling some of these people what dances is it okay to use stools tables and chairs and a rope. So tired of that argument.
PH thank you for this insightful post.
I am so sick of the same Derek always gets the best dancers etc and the hate on him is ridiculous. I hope those same take the time to read and understand this article that to me spells everything out so clearly.
Love the hindsight is 20/20. I also loved the lists you provided listing out the celebs and the pros.
I wasn’t sure about the “ringers” for this year but can now see Janel is leading the pack.
Again thanks for this insightful post, Heidi. Loved it.
Wow, Miss Heidi, A++ for that incredible post. So interesting, insightful and illuminating! (I guess I love alliteration!) Seriously, thank you so much for shedding light on issues that impact our understanding and enjoyment of the show. You are indeed amazing. You ROCK!!!!
Um, Lydia?? Are you in Derek’s head? Don’t think so.
I doubt very much Derek spends ANY time thinking about the C-bros. Certainly not as much time as they (and their fans) spend thinking about him.
You’re right, Katy, I just found reference to her as a ballet dancer – but she was 13 years old at the time. So that was 50 years ago. She was on the show 7 years ago, when she was 56.
She should probably have an asterisk by her name for having dance training that is cancelled out by age – age she was at the time of DWTS and the fact that it was when she was 13 years old. However, that does make her a bigger ringer than Jennifer Grey in terms of dance. But, Jennifer’s ringer status is much more due to fanbase than dance.
ETA: I updated the post so that Jane matches Lea – it’s only fair, as Jane has the same experience and was the same age as Lea is now when she was on the show.
Outstanding analysis. Thank you for all the hard, time consuming work you do on our behalf.
Question about Bethany — is this the first celeb whose monster fan base is from YouTube? Do you think their voting habits will be the same as twitter followers? Also, Bethany has a billboard in Times Square and is on the cover of Seventeen Magazine. Does that affect ringer status? (I hope you find these questions at least marginally interesting.)
Susan – I have no idea. From watching them on twitter, they sound like Zendaya fans, honestly (and that is a bit frightening). They are rabid. I tend to think they will vote, and hard.
But a side question is…why is it that young girls seem so much MORE rabid towards female idols than male??
Bethanny is an interesting addition because her fanbase is purely off of social media platforms (youtube, twitter, instagram) which gave her opportunities outside of that (Aeropostale, Seventeen, aperfume lines, and now DWTS) so I feel like she has one of the biggest fanbases coming into the season but most of the her fans are probably under the age of 18, like Zendaya’s but will they vote?
I also think that Bethanny’s fans might be a little less hardcore and extreme than Zendaya’s just based on Bethanny’s personality and what I’ve actually seen via youtube comments plus being partnered with Derrick opposed to the Val and the “fam”, they might be a little respectful and less irrational but who knows with young fandoms.
Side note: In the off season I watch Big Brother and right now Ariana Grande’s brother is on the show and the fandom for that is A LOT worse than anything I’ve ever seen when it comes to young fans. It’s actually really concerning imo.
Great post! I found it to be very interesting. I agree, when Donny Osmond was announced as part of the cast, everyone knew he was going to win. There was no doubt there. I was surprised Marie didn’t win also, but her freestyle did her in.
Can’t wait for tomorrow and see how everyone does. Welcome back to everyone, especially all of the mods who keep this site going and provide great info on the show.
@Princess Heidi
I misspoke I just think he’s a natural competitor.
I watch the show Switched at Birth and part of Lea’s storyline was taking dance lessons .. think it was tap .. she was pretty good, don’t know if that elevates her ringer status
Also a big thank you for all the hard work that you all do on this site.. I will be checking in quite a bit Monday night since our local station is showing football Monday night and not telecasting DWTS until 3pm Tuesday !!
#29 Sharon — You may be able to watch the show online. If I remember correctly, abc posts it soon after the show ends.
Actually, for me it’s soon after the show ends because I’m on the west coast. So I guess you need to take time zone into consideration, but in any event I’m sure it’s sooner than Tuesday at 3pm.
Thanks Susan for the info, I will check abc.com .. I live in Indiana and there is a 3hr time zone difference
Well, I think abc changed how you can watch their programming. Last week, I tried to watch Jimmy Kimmel on the abc site, and it was posted quickly the following morning, but I was only able to watch if I had the correct cable provider. Mine wasn’t one listed, so it told me that I CAN watch online, but I will have to wait a week.
So, depending on who your cable provider is, it’s possible that you will be able to watch before Tuesday at 3pm.
“Um, there has only been ONE Kate Gosselin” Truer words were never written! LOL
First of all, thank you, PH, for an amazing post. I really like how clear you make everything, and I also love the “which pros had which celebs” graphics. It’s a great way of putting everything on one page.
In terms of your comment #24, I think girls connect to teenage girls. That’s why I find myself pulling for Bethany and Sadie this season – they are both fairly young, like myself, and I feel like I can connect to them better. And I think that some young girls are just as rabid with male idols – just look at One Direction or Justin Bieber or James Maslow or Cody Simposon. They might not be rabid voters, per se, but they are rabid fans.
#Lori/Sharon If the abc site is blocked, if you google “watch dancing with the stars episodes online” you’ll find lots of sites with links. If I don’t watch something live I usually watch it via these sites instead of recording. Bonus is you get the show without the advertising.
PH, Adding my voice to the chorus of praise and appreciation for your hard work and clear, logical, and easy to understand explanation of how “ringer” is defined here at Pure. It would be lovely if those who most needed to read it actually did. However, I fear that’s a vain hope. There are none so blind, as those who will not see. That said, I feel this will be a very educational read for those who are new to the site and and come with an open mind and *no* chip on their shoulder.
As for Val’s lack of success with all his ringers. I think Val’s the problem. He’s a fine dancer and decent choreographer, but his interpersonal skills are under-developed. To me he seems intense, driven, and naturally aloof; someone who doesn’t relate to other adults particularly well or make friends easily. That’s not an indictment of him as a person, but it is a handicap for a teaching pro on DWTS (in my opinion).
Cidra, Derek says in his book that when he relaxed, did what he thought was right, and stopped focusing on winning….he started winning. And really, I think that’s likely true in most situations. When winning is your focus above all else, you’re less likely to. Be the reason desperation, going to far, whatever. But really, if Derek says that’s what worked for him, if my name was Val I’d be paying attention to Derek, not my brother.
I just don’t know if Val can get past the familial traits and the pressure to win.
Well, having just gone to the ABC DWTS site to look for the voting rules, I see that Val is highlighted on the main page…still. I guess they are pretty desperate to help him out. Question is – are they really anxious for him to win, or are they spotlighting the person most likely to beat Derek??
I say that because I can they them not really wanting Derek to win much more than them being invested in Val winning.
Thank you for your efforts with this fascinating and informative article, Princess Heidi. Great read.
Well I don’t know if I could stomach another C-brother winning this season. One was bad enough but to have them both shoved down our throats in back-to-back seasons would probably be the final straw for me.
Great article as always PH. Putting the over/under on you having to link to this in response to an annoying comment at 6 days….
I’m adding my “thank you”, as well. Excellent analysis, and great explanations with examples for those that have trouble following a thought. Fantastic graphics. I had read the first three parts a couple years ago, and read them again now.
I also want to say I agree completely with Cidra, #37, entirely.
I don’t post often, but I visit this site daily (sometimes several times a day!), and feel like I know you guys. Anxious for tomorrow!
Tremendous post. Well done. I am such a nerd about this stuff and this is just the best!
Just as a side nugget, with the exception of Keyshawn Johnson, the NFL players always HAVE gone far. It’s extraordinary. I did the math back in Season 17:
I don’t actually consider 6th and 7th “far” though.
But thanks. I removed the link since we don’t like links in comments.
Great post! So thorough and well thought out…my brain hurts from all the info this early in the morning!
I’ve come to the conclusion that the only reason people complain about Derek and all of his supposed ringers is because he ACTUALLY wins with good partners (and even some people didn’t expect to be good like Amber). Yes, Val has had a ringer pretty much since Kelly (one could argue) but no one talks about it because he hasn’t won once so it makes it seem like he’s had SO many challenging partners (insert eye roll). Mark has only won twice, it took everything the show had to push Maks to FINALLY win. No one says anything about these pros because they don’t have the track record Derek does.
I do agree that Val is his own worst enemy with this show though. He doesn’t have the personality traits of Maks that make him a presence so if he doesn’t have a very skilled partner it could be difficult to remember he was even on the show. Also his desperation to “win” as others have mentioned. Heidi does bring up a VERY good point that it may not be so much about getting Val a win but making sure Derek doesn’t win AGAIN. I saw push the female pros though…too many male pro winners recently.
Hi! PHeidi…Thank you!
Time is precious, especially for the working person, and you spent time on this and I can’t speak for everyone; but, I sure appreciate your thoughts. You are quite an intelligent person and educated.
What a great breakdown of the subject of “ringers.” Your analysis is spot on! You certainly cleared up things for me in a common sense kind of way.
LOL! You should write a book on “Ringers.” Some viewers might benefit from it immensely. 🙂
This is fantastic post! I can’t imagine how much work it was for you to put together PH. So, thank you! Now if only people would actually read it and think rather than let their bias cloud their ability to do so.
PH (#39) Massive eye-roll at TPTB. You hit the nail on the head. This isn’t about Val (which I’m sure is a blow to the C-Fam ego), it’s about Derek. They’re afraid he’ll win again. If that’s such a problem for them, the solution is simple — don’t sign him as a teaching pro. Of course, that’ll never happen; they’re greedy and want to have their cake and eat it too.
When you think about it, it makes a ton of sense, Cidra. And they definitely want their cake and to eat it too. They feel they need Derek for the ratings, yet him winning again starts to look bad on them (they think). They feel they’ve got to mix it up for credibility sake. Of course, Derek doesn’t care – he wants to be challenged and inspired. I bet they thought they had the perfect solution for everyone last season – Amy Purdy. Derek is challenged, there’s no way he can win, he also does Macy’s so he’s still *there*…and then he takes Amy to the finals. LOL. No wonder they were hyping Maksyl so much…of course, the showmance sucks the gullible in everytime. It wasn’t hard.
Side benefit – I think they intended to have Maks be the 4th judge, which made it imperative that he win at least once. So, everyone wins. Maks gets his win so he can be a credible judge, Derek gets inspired, TPTB save face. Then Julianne enters the picture (or she was there all along with out Maks knowing). When she decided to be a judge, she’s a bigger draw than Maks and that was that.
I’m curious to see if after voting online we’ll get to see a video of the team we actually voted for, or if yet another Chmercocky will perpetually occupy that space.
I think you’re right Cidra, about wanting to have their cake and eat it too because if they wanted to make sure Derek wouldn’t win they would give him Betsey Johnson, who I’m sure will be great fun, but it not likely to win.
Plus, by highlighting Val on the website, they are condoning it being all about the pro. Not a good move. I’m wondering if any of the other teams are unhappy with Val being a permanent fixture on the website. (I just checked it again and he’s still there.) I think it’s outrageous on many different counts. And with all the things the new PTB seem to be getting right, this seems to be a glaring instance of getting something really, really wrong.
I think Maks and Julianne were options all along. It makes sense they went with Julianne IMO. Julianne and Derek appeal more to the younger demo they’re trying to impress. Val and Peta appeal to almost to the same demo. Maks, on the other hand, doesn’t.
Do you think reporters, or bloggers, who have shows that discuss DWTS should be retweeting a single contestant’s tweets, particularly if it contains their voting number? Maybe I am being over sensitive about this but it seems to lend a bias as they do have some sway imo. I was surprised to see this as this person tends to be pretty neutral on favoritism. It was for Janel and Val so they really don’t need any more support than they are getting from social media at this point imo.
Problem here is, those of us who are not Chmercocky fans don’t do the rabid, crazy shit that the Chmercocky fans do – that is spam the shit out of ABC until we get our way.
Actually, I’m thinking that Derek and Betsey might have a good chance of winning, if they were paired – they might be hilarious… in fact, I think that Nene and Derek would have had a pretty good chance too! Haha!
One thing that’s interested to me is Tristan. I’ve read through the ringer criteria but am admittedly not an expert on it, but I think Tristan may be one of the few people who could actually say he hasn’t gotten a ringer. Yet, I doubt you’d ever hear him say that because that doesn’t seem like that kind of person. I’m sure there are others who were only on a season or two who could say this too, but Tristan stuck out to me.
Now that I’m talking about Tristan, I actually met the man who gave Valerie Harper the role that led to her role as Rhoda. He and Valerie are very close, and he actually got to attend Valerie’s final episode of DWTS as one of her guests. He told me a few interesting tidbits. One of the most random encounters I’ve had but turned out to be fascinating.
LOL, PH…and the Chmercockys lose to the Houghs…again. The funniest part of that is the Houghs don’t see it as a family fued and that’s *all* the C-Clan thinks about.
I get the impression Len is still planning to take a couple weeks off during the season to recover from the weekly jetting between LA and London. If that’s the case I wonder if they’re lining up Maks to be the designated fill-in?
Lizzie tweeted a while ago that Maks is no longer connected to DWTS “in any way” – which made him sound like a sore loser.
But him acting the sore loser hasn’t prevented him from coming back before so… :::shrug:::