Private Members Area – DWTS Season 19 America’s Choice and Trio Challenge Discussion
Tonight was week nine of Dancing with the Stars Season 19. If you’re not a Pure DWTS Insider yet, you can do so here. If you are, then I look forward to the discussion in the comments.
What did you think of tonight’s show? We’re ok if you kiss and tell. In fact, today’s off topic topic is, “Your best kiss.” Let’s hear some good stories. Or just keep it to DWTS if you prefer. Let’s hear your thoughts.
I just loved the trio dances last night. I especially loved Derek, Bethany, and Tony. They were off the hook as well as Alfonso, Witney, and Lindsay. Same with Mark, Sadie, and Emma. It was so cool to see Mark and Sadie get all 10’s. Though Derek’s team deserved all tens too. I’ll never understand why all the underscoring this season.
My fave couple dances were Derek & Bethany and Sadie & Mark.
And LOL to your “best kiss” question…not sure if I should answer that or not. lol
Always love the trio dances! I was surprised at how well Mark made his trio work with a Foxtrot AND having Emma. Sadie and Emma’s dresses might have been two of my favorite ever on the show also (not that it’s important!). I was really worried Len was going to give Alfonso a 9 so I’m glad he got the perfect score. Also…Bethany’s AT? INCREDIBLE. I love that song to begin with and just the raw power of it was incredible. I did think SOME of her movements weren’t completely crisp for an AT so I’m okay that she got some 9s but also did think it deserved some 10s.
Wow…the favoritism and overscoring of Janel was so obvious tonight even casual fans have noticed. I actually think of the 5 left she’s getting the fewest votes but Tommy is so much lower than everyone else in points I just don’t think he can overcome that. Isn’t he like 20 points behind? That would be difficult for anyone to overcome.
DLT, I agree. The favoritism, overscoring, pimping, and showmancing with Janel and Val is so bad, I can’t even take those two seriously anymore. I’ve put them on ignore.
Well I agree with what everyone has said. I won’t repeat it but by the end of the night I was ready to throw something at the TV!!!!!!
One thing that seriously bothered me to the point of rage was when Peta, Tommy and Sharna walked over for their scores and the 3 judges (and you know who I mean) were all laughing so hysterically they couldn’t even score them. How RUDE you stupid creatures. Not usually a Peta fan but she has been working her butt of this season. So J tries to save herself by saying I told you from the beginning you would be here for a long time. Too late bitch you have already embarrassed them.
It is definitely time for testing for substances! JMO
I will go back and watch the dances again and zip thru all the BS because there was some really good dances last night. Will not watch VJ again.
I watched. I was disgusted. I did the zip through too.
CAI is the most unprofessional, professional I have seen. I am overly tired of whatever Mark does; for her it’s just not the right moment to do “that.” If he stays true and traditional to ballroom dance, she slams him. If he goes “all Mark” she slams her.
I’m ready to slam her. If I were in the audience I would be hard pressed not to boo the judges and throw out some comments that I’m sure would get me booted from the building.
Bethany seems to have her head on straight about all of this. Hey I danced, here’s the comments, there’s the scores. Okay–on to next week. I think Sadie was in an odd mood last night. I have this odd feeling she thought she was going home.
I can’t even be bothered talking about Janel, it’s old and dry. She’s in this competition by default only in my eyes. Don’t get me started on the scoring.
I’m sad Lea and Artem left but it was their time and they went out on a high. Although I didn’t massively enjoy their samba mainly due to the band murdering that song. I must say I was a little disappointed by some of Lea comments in the interviews after the show. I hope Artem had a quiet word with her after she brought up his relationship with CAI from years ago.
My votes all go to Tommy now, I’m a sucker for entertainment and that trio was the best of the night. It was simply the only dance that I actually burst out laughing at. I hope they make the final.
Also can I just point out how much of a gentleman Alfonso is. The little things mean a lot and he’s always the first person down the stairs at the final dance, giving the eliminated couple hugs. Considering he’s a cert for the final and possibly the trophy, I find that a real touch of class. Props to Witney as well, that superb paso has given me the confidence that she could potentially match Derek and Mark in a final showdance. I’ve openly questioned her choreography skills in the past so credit to her for showing her stripes.
Oh and Emma was a flawless as ever. That is all <3
Sounds like we need to get dancewithyou a pass to attend so we can see you get booted out 😉
Vogue, don’t underestimate Whitney in the freestyle. Remember she has all the SYTYCD background and has done a bunch of styles of dance. So, I think she and Alfonso could do something special. I hope she doesn’t go safe.
P.S. Vogue, if you’re asking yourself if you should share…the answer is a most definite yes.
Since I asked…I better start…
It’s hard to choose one best kiss. My most memorable will probably be a few weeks after my now wife and I started dating. It was the 4th of July or some holiday like it. We escaped the house late that evening and walked over to the park at the local elementary school where we hung out on the swings and slides and talked. As we played around, I went in to give her a kiss and at the exact moment I started kissing her, this huge firework went off over our heads. I couldn’t have planned it more perfectly if I’d tried. We both still laugh about the amazing coincidence today.
Awww John.. 🙂 Now that’s a kiss worth talking about!! Loved your story.
Well John that is a beautiful story of your most memorable kiss.
I would say ours was the day my fiance now husband got off the plane after being in Vietnam for two years. All I remember was running into his arms and kissing him as hard as I could. Then we eloped the next weekend and that was it.
Thank goodness America didn’t have to vote on it!!!! LOL
Hahahaah Lynn – you mean you didn’t wait for Twitter votes to see if you should?
ROTFL Fig – thank goodness no Twitter in 1965. As a matter of fact no one got to vote but us!!!!
Lynn,
Great story. In fact, it reminded me of the post I did on my healthcare IT blog: http://www.emrandhipaa.com/emr-and-hipaa/2014/11/11/happy-veterans-day/ I think you’ll enjoy it. I can imagine the joy you must have had at that moment. If America did need to vote on it, I would have voted for you 😉
Great post John. I let my DH read it and forwarded it to all of my family.
Thank you John, love you back.
Love your post John. There are groups out there stepping up to the plate to honor all veterans. It’s generically called Honor Flight then add your locale. I think it started in Minnesota and has spread throughout the nation. My dad, a WWII vet 91 years young, flew out of DFW for his honor flight. They have expanded the cause to Korean Veterans and will be adding the Viet Nam era group as the WWII generation passes on. It’s a wonderful organization and most deserving if you plan on charity donations at Christmas.
Now back to your regularly scheduled posting…..
Thank you Mark for 2 wonderful dances. Best of the night for me. But I really enjoyed Derek/Bethany too. Regarding Janel–yep, saw that mean girl vibe first hand last night. Please let her be the shocking elim next week!
As some of you might imagine, I don’t get all this vitriol towards Janel. She’s not my favorite star that’s been on the show, but she’s been pleasant. She can’t control what the producers choose to do and the things she’s done haven’t bothered me much at all. She’s a kid who went to Hollywood and got some success even though it was an enormous long shot. She was insecure when she got there and not sure if she’d be a success and I think some of her insecurity still shows. She lacks some confidence, but I think that’s a feature of being in Hollywood where you’re constantly judged by insane standards.
Anyway, just wanted to share a different perspective on Janel. Plus, I think we all over think this a bit too much. Although, maybe that’s the intention of a site like ours 😉
I don’t get why people attach our complaining about the blatant manipulation of the show to favor Janel and Val, the crazy scoring and the pimping of the showmance to Janel as a person. I think THAT is not thinking about it enough. Yes, there are definitely people who don’t like Janel. And yes, people have said negative things about Janel. But there are far more people who are disgusted with the blatant favoritism that’s being shown to her. Those are two different things entirely and I think too many people lump them into one. When someone is being vitriolic – I think you have to read the words they’re using to attempt to distinguish just who or what it is they don’t like. I see FAR too many posts about “why do you all hate Janel” when the topic of discussion was the lousy ass scoring and how the dance didn’t deserve those kinds of scores. Note the use of the word “scores” – which Janel has no actual control over. And that’s just one example.
I, for example, don’t much care about Janel one way or another. I find Val’s behavior with the showmancing rather deplorable mainly because I consider him to be a very talented choreographer that doesn’t NEED to stoop to that level. He’s not working the show – he’s taking the easy way. The “cheap” way. But that’s about *Val* – not Janel. I am absolutely disgusted with the judges last night, especially Julianne (who I expected so much more from), for giving Janel’s dances 10s AFTER saying there was a mistake and not enough content in her respective dances. Again – NOT about Janel but about the dumb ass judges. Courtney said in her Power Rankings: “Quit trying to make Janel happen” – was that about *Janel*?? Sounds like it was directed at the producers, to me.
Frankly, I get rather resentful when someone says “Why do you all hate Janel” when thinking about what it is that I am saying (in particular) *should* lead most people to realize that I’m not talking about Janel at all. All my words have meaning. Even the swear words. 🙂
I mean really – how often am I subtle? 😀
PH,
I don’t think many are sophisticated enough to make the differentiation like you describe. I think they’re one in the same for many I see complaining. Or at least their holding Janel accountable for the producers decisions. I’m also not really talking about the people in this thread either, but other places as well.
I think the reason the scores are wonky goes back to my post on the overscoring express: https://www.puredwts.com/2013/09/18/the-dwts-overscore-express/ The judges start the scores off so high at the beginning of the season that they have no space for their scores to cover the nuances of the dances week to week. If they had more room to score and differentiate performances, then we’d still see some wonkiness, but not nearly as much.
Here’s an idea, Next season let’s pair Val with the oldest female celebrity of the cast, then maybe, just maybe, I can enjoy one season without Val lapping up the showmance card.
Sandy,
I’m not sure that would get your wish. Maybe Val likes a little cougar action as well.
I don’t think it’s out of bounds to expect people to actually use their intellect and READ. But maybe I have too high of expectations for people as human beings.
I also don’t think the problems with the scores last night have anything to do with starting out to high early in the season. When you tell one contestant, “Yeah, I saw a mistake…BUT I DON”T CARE!” That’s another problem altogether. I think the meeting the judges have with the producers put a big ole bug in their ear that Tommy can’t make the finale – no matter what it takes.
What flabbergasts me is that Julianne actually said the words. If she wouldn’t have said either thing, people would still be pissed, but I don’t think they’d be screaming as much about blatant manipulation.
You definitely have too high of expectations for people 😉
Another problem with the scoring is that they submit their score and then comment. That leads to their comments not aligning with their scores. I imagine Julianne would like to take that one back.
Think about what the judges have going on in their minds when scoring, “What did the dancer do? Was it entertaining? What did I score them before? What Did I score the other teams? Was it technical? What did the producers tell me? What did I tell this couple before? etc etc etc”
Definitely not easy to score and a bunch of it is subjective (as we’ve seen with all these guest judges who score however they feel in the moment).
Maybe I am being to naive here but if the dance you perform the first week deserves a 10 then so be it. If you do a dance every week that deserves a 10 then so be it. I know that is not realistic but for pete’s sake give the dancers the scores they deserve no matter what week it is.
If these judges don’t have it all down pat by now then they don’t belong there and besides they do take notes.
Lynn,
I agree that if someone deserves a 10 for their dance, then give it to them. However, let’s assume a 10 is a pro worthy dance. If that’s the scale, then no star would likely get above a 5 the first week. Otherwise, you’re saying that the star is nearly as good a dancer as a pro the first week and won’t improve over the arch of the season.
So here’s a dumb question … If the viewers are voting in such overwhelming numbers that Tommy stays in the show notwithstanding his horrible scores, why are TPTB so determined to not have him in the finals? Tommy and (the transformation of) Peta is one of the great stories of this season. Why would they want it to go away?
All I want is for the couples to be given a fair and proper score every week and I know that will probably never happen with the people who are sitting in those chairs or NOT sitting most of the time.
Heidi is correct – there are two things at play here with Janel detractors. Those that don’t like her, and those that don’t like the manipulation and overscoring. Personally, I am in both camps. I just didn’t like her from the start, more based on gut feeling, her need for attention and obvious insecurities that she’s overcompensating for. I do think she’s a very good dancer though, but something about her really puts me off.
This is not a Val thing or a manipulation thing – because I’ve liked other celebs that benefited from the producers (Chelsea Kane) and Val has a lot of potential as a choreographer – much more so than Maks, although I prefer the elder because at least he amuses me. However, what I NEVER like is a fake showmance, and that’s really put me off and I blame that on Janel and Val just as much as TPTB.
Anyway, if it was just one thing I could probably stomach it – but all of it just makes me want her gone. I’d love to see Tommy in the finale anyway, just because he makes me smile.
Fig,
You’re right about the difference between Maks and Val. Maks is more entertaining because of the outlandish things he says and does. Like him or not, that makes for great TV cause he was interesting. Val is more like that with his choreography (or least has the potential to be). So, Maks’ personality is more amusing and interesting, but Val’s choreography is more amusing and interesting.
You’re easy, John. 🙂 These people are professionals who are getting paid a nice chunk of change. The fact that BOTH times Julianne did that it benefited one contestant is suspicious to say the least. Especially when she (they all) nitpick to death other contestants like Alfonso and Sadie. It just doesn’t wash. They have notes in front of them – Tom told CAI to stop writing and comment. I think they storyboard to an extreme.
Not a dumb question, Susan.
There are a couple ways to look at this. Tommy may not be getting votes in overwhelming number – just enough to beat the lower scored people. He only needed 12k more votes per million votes cast to beat Lea – that is not a huge number at all. And if Lea didn’t have anyone really voting for her, was it really that much of an accomplishment??
Second, I’ve often gotten the feeling that there is a tug of war that goes on – they want “good” dancers in the finale because that lends credibility to the competition, yet they also want the “drama” of Tommy beating out Lea because that’s exciting, and they also want the people around who draw viewers. But they also probably figure that someone like Tommy, who may or may not be drawing viewers, can dance next week and get eliminated – and they have him the entire 11 weeks because he’ll still be at the finale. Trying to get him out last week (or at least make sure Janel sticks), only means they are without him for a week. Assuming he’s a draw.
Then there is the theory that a couple people mentioned on twitter, that perhaps Janel was going on tour and that’s why they want her in the finale so bad. Which only makes sense about half the time, but there you go. 🙂
PH,
Don’t forget the “Janel’s from an ABC show” theory.
True, I did neglect that one.
I’m loving the John / PH exchange.
I don’t watch AFTERBUZZ faithfully. But here’s the thing I find so amusing about the show, relevant to who their guests might be. Let’s take Shirley Ballas and the “tone” she delivered on AfterBuzz this week. Sometimes they ALL speak as though DWTS is actually a ballroom competition with trophies and cash prizes at the end, and then on to the next circuit competition. IF any of Shirley’s comments about the Monday night show were supported by a PADDLE NUMBER, some of our celebs would have received two rounds of 40, and Tommy would have hit the 5 to 6 mark. Her comparison of Tommy’s scores to Sadie and Bethany was on point!
As for the story-boarding comment somewhere above, has Deep Throat shared much info about the judges as in production type meetings etc?
PH, I don’t know what you mean by they have “notes” in front of them. They take notes while they’re watching the dances so they can gather their thoughts and/or plan out funny lines.
I can’t definitively comment on storyboarding, but I really don’t think the scores are storyboarded as much as people say. The rehearsal packages are another story – of course those are storyboarded, they’re nothing but story. The producers take what happens in rehearsal / live show / judges’ comments and put together what they think will be the most dramatic story out of that, and that includes trying to create a “journey” or story arc for each celebrity.
That’s also not to say that the scores are FAIR – the judges all have their favorites, their biases, their likes and dislikes and I agree they’re usually not objective. But I actually agree with John – they’re on the spot, they watch the dance once and have to immediately give a score and comments. It’s also quite different watching the show in person as opposed to on TV – you don’t get close-ups of footwork obviously, but you get a more general picture of the dance. I think it’s also very easy to be influenced by the energy of the audience in the ballroom. When I watch the live show and then watch the show back on TV, the dances I loved in person aren’t necessarily the same ones I think are the best when I see them on tape.
I have a question and thought I would start here. Does anyone have the link to the latest Official Rules for US version of DWTS or can anyone share a summary? The DWTS Vote page says that they provide the Official Rules to each couple and that the summary is on their website, but I couldn’t find any summary. NFL’s 100+ page rulebook can be downloaded as PDF from the NFL website, so I thought that DWTS might have some form available to download as well.
I thought DWTS had posted a summary of key rules on their website many years ago, around the Season 3 days, but I could be imagining things. The reason why I mention Season 3 is that I remember a lot of “breaking the rules” discussion between judges and pros including: lifts in the International Dancesport dances*, breaking hold in middle of Standard dances and the ensuing debate about American Smooth vs International Standard competition rules in US DWTS, amount of non-hold work allowed at beginning and end of dances, and amount of technical content.
Whether or not the show believes that the enforcing of a set of criteria via scores and comments should be mostly consistent between seasons, week-to-week within a season, celebrities, and professionals is a totally separate issue. I hope they decide to move back towards more consistency and also make the criteria more readily available to the general audience, but it is what it is.
Thanks for any insights.
*International Dancesport dances — Standard: Waltz, Foxtrot, Tango, Viennese Waltz, Quickstep; Latin: Rumba, Cha Cha Cha, Samba, Paso Doble, Jive.
It’s also worth remembering that the judges scores don’t matter nearly as much at the end where they’re are usually pretty close. PH’s DWTS by the numbers shows how little an impact they have. At least for a popular star.
Thanks for the added insight Buttercup.
I don’t think they’ve ever published the rules, 5678Dance, because that would be terribly inconvenient, wouldn’t it?? People might actually hold them accountable. I did a huge post a while back on how they could make the scoring “fair” – establish rules, publish them and only give an 8 or higher if they hit a certain number of the criteria in the dance – but they will never do that because then they won’t be able to save their favorites. Or underscore those they don’t like as much.
That’s really not true, John. The scores ALWAYS matter – they count for half the total that decides who wins and loses. The only reason they aren’t significant at this point in the season is because the judges wimp out and give everyone about the same score. Or they decide to throw out all objectivity completely and “save” someone like Janel. If they wouldn’t do that, then they most certainly would be much more significant. If Tommy makes it to the finale, for example, they most certainly will matter very much – and he IS “popular”. If they decide to reward him for making the final and give him 8’s and one of the girls gets only 9’s?? Could be a game changer.
Besides, I don’t think that “the scores don’t matter” is an excuse to be completely subjective and biased and *stupid* when whipping out your paddle.
If Tommy makes the final, it could be the first time that there was a major difference in scores between those who were in the final.
Too bad we don’t have access to the data to really verify it, but I’d be surprised if America’s choice for the mirror ball trophy was ever changed by the judges scores. Fun to hypothesize though.
I think there are a few instances when there SHOULD have been a major difference in the scores in the finale, but like I said – wimps. But there are other seasons when there was a good difference and likely impacted the outcome. Jacoby, in his season, was 9 points out of first place, and 5 points from the next closest competitor – and got 3rd. There was an 8 point difference between him and Kellie on the final night. Since he beat a pretty big margin to get past Aly – those 8 points were pretty important. Bristol, in her first season, was 14 points out of first place and 6 points behind Kyle. They actually RANKED that season and had a good spread between all competitors. But if they’d had more courage earlier in the season, Bristol wouldn’t have made it that far.
In season 14, on the other hand, there is no way there was only REALLY a 1 point difference between William and Katherine. No way. Season 12 they put 5 points between Chelsea and Kirstie – still didn’t help Chelsea, but that was actually reasonable. Although I think Kirstie’s over all scores were pretty kind.
There are instances where the scores are EXTREMELY important, but so much of the time they throw it to the audience, rendering their opinion irrelevant. But clearly, there are also times when they feel it’s important to make sure that the better dancer (in their opinion) has a better shot at winning. Question always is – which season are we going to be in? My guess is that they throw it to the audience when they think the vote is close and don’t want to be responsible for denying someone a MBT. Hence, William and Bristol. Other times they feel it’s safer to really rank them. I have a feeling that the final four this time is going to be really close. Unless Tommy gets in there. 🙂
Very late to the game, but I wanted to throw out there that scoring issues have always existed on DWTS.
From Season 4, for example, Apolo out-and-out called the judges on it, at one point saying (in response to Samantha’s post-score “how do you feel” question) he wished “the judging would be more consistent”. There was quite a foo-foo about him saying that on the ABC boards, as I recall. 😉
Then again, he and Julianne had a slip-up in their Paso, but still got a perfect score, so that judging we-saw-and-don’t-care has always been around too…
Thanks for the insights, Buttercup – I always love the little insider nuggets you give!
I am always fine that judges score some contestants on a sliding scale according to their age, abilities, and experience – what always rankles is when they overscore ones that aren’t showing improvement or living up to their abilities, or manipulate their words and scores to be OVERLY harsh on some – the Ralphs, Apolo/Karina, and Charlies of the competition. They also obviously treat the pros different and handicap them accordingly. Derek, and often Mark and Karina, have a higher threshold to meet.
But to say that the judges don’t have an impact towards the ending weeks is not true, because even when they score the couples similarly their words make an impact on the sheeple of the audience – that over-effusive praise for one and reserved appreciation for another despite comparable scores has surely translated into MANY votes across the audience – even if their eyes should tell them something different.
Fig,
That’s true. What the judges say and how they score a star influences how many viewers choose to vote. It can motivate or de-motivate a fan’s voting base.
Uh-oh TMZ is removing Alfonso had a major back injury Wednesday night and didn’t rehearse yesterday to get an MRI. I know it’s TMZ and not to taking anything they say too seriously but that doesn’t sound too good. I know people have performed before with back injuries (Derek and Tony come to mind) but it makes me nervous. I guess at least it happened Wednesday night and not Saturday night.
IF Alfonso has to pull out of the competition anyone who wins this season has to know they got handed a gift.
I don’t think any one has implied it’s a new thing, Lurker. Although it is somewhat rare for a judge to say someone had a mistake and give them a 10 anyway.
Very true about words, Fig. I would add Tone as well.
I think about how over the top they were about Melissa’s freestyle, and much less so about Shawn’s with Derek. While neither one of them will be in my top freestyle lists ever, I think the judges praise – combined with the constant “Tony’s never won”, and Melissa’s likability got them their win, despite the fact that Shawn and Derek produced some of the best dances ever in the history of DWTS.
I will say that ever since Tony won, I feel like he’s more relaxed on the show and accepts his partners and grows with them with more grace than before, if that makes sense? Now that he got his lifetime achievement award, the monkey is off his back and seems to enjoy the Betseys and Leahs of the competition. I also think he does better with these types than the true talent, because he and Melissa – or any of his better dancers – never really had memorable dances.
#38 @Princess Heidi – Thanks for your reply. After further thought, what I might be remembering is a listing of the ballroom dances being performed in the US version with a basic description of the character of the dance (e.g. cheeky/flirty, romantic/sensual, intense/passionate, etc).
I would be interested in reading your post with recommendations for implementing a fairer scoring system. I did a search in the archives, but couldn’t find it. Could you tell me where I should look?
If the show wanted to push their chosen contestants through to the finale, I wonder why they wouldn’t they do something like a Judges Save of the bottom two/three? It would be something similar to what SYTYCD does in the earlier part of the Top 20, or something like what Battle of the Blades (Canadian figure skating competition with figure skaters and hockey players) does. The bottom contestants have to perform again and the judges make their choice on who gets to stay. It just seems a lot simpler than worrying about how much to overscore or underscore everyone on performance night to enhance the likelihood that someone(s) will stay. Would love to hear people’s thoughts on this.
I’ll have to think about what I named that post actually. When I remember I’ll post a link to it here.