Dancing with the Stars Season 24, Week 4 – Manipulation Mayhem
The last several seasons, you’ve heard Courtney and I complain ad nauseum about the ways that this show is manipulated. Sometimes subtly and other times very overtly. From lack of interviews with Erin, to lack of overall PR, to song/dance assignments, to the packages. Most people don’t even notice it because the tendency in humans is to believe what they see – even when they should know better.
Ironically, when we have a Bachelor on the show is when I think to start this series – the Bachelor is probably the single most manipulated, produced, heavily edited (however you want to phrase it) show on television that is so-called “reality”. Here is where I plug the show UNreal which is a take off on the Bachelor series and is a (supposedly fictionalized) scripted – more scripted – drama. Fantastic series – I highly recommend it. Produced by a former Bachelor producer, it will REALLY make you think twice about how much you believe on DWTS or any other reality show.
Anyway, in the comments on the live blog this past Monday night, Lori C commented – in response to my crack that they were helping Normani by giving her a ridiculously longer amount of time on camera – that she would time all the contestants camera time to see if what I was feeling was correct. And she did – for which I thank her. I was going to include this in my DBTN post, but then I thought why not give it a post all it’s own? So here we are.
Interesting results – and my gut instincts about Normani were correct. But I think you’ll be surprised by who else got a good amount of air time. Here’s a look at what Lori C sent me:
Sorry about the fuzziness. 🙂 Anyway, this was great, and while it confirmed my suspicion for the most part, it was hard for me to tell what the actual ranking was for each dancer, so I did it a slightly different way. Converted everything to seconds:
The results presented like this are actually rather shocking. Just to ward off cries of “xx seconds?!?! That’s no big deal!” I want you to stop reading right here and count 1 one thousand 2 one thousand 3 one thousand…and so on up to 8. That’s the number of seconds that Normani had over Simone on just the dance itself. It’s quite a nice little chunk of time.
Then think about it – Normani had a grand total of 118 seconds more screen time than Simone did – nearly TWO MINUTES. That is massive on this TV show. Massive. Bitching about Normani going first? You can STFU now. 😀
Gee, why would they need to give Normani so much more time than Simone? Hmmm….let me think…
Like “orange is the new black”, this is the new “bad package” although I suspect we’ll start to see some of those as well. Some think that Simone has already had a bad package. Not sure I agree, but my opinion doesn’t matter – the general perception of the audience does. And I am “woke” to these producers so maybe it doesn’t affect me as much.
Alright, some of you who have been visiting this site for a long time might be ready to point out that this is just one week. You can’t glean anything from just one week. No, we have to look at the whole season – hopefully Lori will continue to time everything. Any volunteers for a back up? If we had multiple people do it in the format I did it above, I could average each category and we would get a more accurate read on it. Anyway, right now, the top four in number of seconds is kind of interesting. What does it mean? Well we won’t really know that until the season is over either. Either those people are the top vote getters…or the producers WANT them to be the top vote getters and giving them more camera time (and Simone less) is how they get it done.
Don’t forget, they run through this show multiple times and it’s carefully staged – there isn’t much left to chance. So, while the 7 seconds between Nancy and David could fluctuate by several seconds in either direction – that is, it’s a small enough number to be insignificant, IMO – the nearly two minutes between Normani and Simone is likely no accident.
This is just one of many ways that the producers can manipulate this show to get the desired outcome – all with never tampering with the votes. I could list them all for you, but I want to see what you think. We’ll talk about the other methods next week, in part 2.
This is a very interesting idea. I’ve noticed it as of recent, but will have to go back and look at it much more carefully now.
I find it extremely sickening; I think it is not fair to Simone. It just wrong. Speechless. For that alone people should vote more for them.
Hmm. Interesting to see the numbers together. That definitely is a means of manipulation, especially when it comes to pleading to the audience that the judges were talking a load of dross and that they really are that awesome.
I don’t think anything’s left up to chance, but I do think that there are times that the timing of the show has to be altered on the fly because of “distractions,” e.g. judges talking too long, arguing with the judges leading to them talking too long, grabbing the microphone and talking about various things and not giving the host a chance to keep the show on schedule, etc.
I’d be interested to see how often they do have to adjust the timing. Looking at how that table is scaled, it looks like they go for the immediate timing fix, rather than calculate a balance for everything after that point.
I had a friend that spent some time backstage with the WWE during Monday Night Raw, and he marvelled at how quickly those guys have to recalculate the timing of the show if a segment goes long. Essentially, that guy simply balances the remaining of the schedule so that everything that can be cut is cut slightly, rather than slice a giant chunk now and fix it immediately.
WOW just WOW….me thinks that Val knows, exactly, what he’s doing every time he opens his damn mouth and hogs up camera time-he’s apart of the manipulation! And this has been going on all season so far-I, highly, doubt the numbers are gonna change much, re. Val and Normani-not unless somebody puts a stop to his mouth….?
I’m not gonna talk about the eternal Xime vs Hough-Ballas thing, but what really pisses me is the short dances on this show since I can’t remember. This is week 4, and the dances still not reach 90 seconds.
This is when I miss old and gold DwtS early seasons… #sigh
I consider myself quite the cynic, especially about this show, and even I didn’t expect this much of a disparity in camera time; I would really compare this to subliminal advertising; so many people are completely unaware that it is happening and end up “buying into” whatever is being sold! For the past couple of seasons, I’ve felt like Val and his partners have had more screen time than other couples and I tended to blame it on his suffering from diarrhea of the mouth most of the time! But it really is shocking to see it laid out like that and I’ll be very curious to see if the pattern continues through the rest of the season and if it does, will it have any influence on who wins the season? Hmm! ?
I am totally happy to do it for the rest of the season. I already have a spreadsheet ready to go.
To add to Heidi’s point about 2 minutes being a huge amount of time on this show: the amount of screen time Normani got was 137% of the amount Simone got. That’s not a negligible difference at all.
Out of curiosity, I decided to time just these 2 for the other 3 weeks.
Week 3 – Normani: package = 74 seconds, dance = 70 seconds, Tom, judges, and scores = 190 seconds, total = 334. Simone: package = 74 seconds, dance = 66 seconds, Tom, judges, and scores = 167 seconds, total = 307. So Normani got 109% of what Simone got.
Week 2 – Normani: package = 64 seconds, dance = 55 seconds, Tom and judges = 120 seconds, Erin and scores = 86 seconds, total = 325 seconds. Simone: package = 68 seconds, dance = 55 seconds, Tom, judges, and scores = 141 seconds, total = 264 seconds. Normani got 123% of what Simone got.
Week 1 – Normani: package = 56 seconds, dance = 70 seconds, Tom and judges = 168 seconds, Erin and scores = 92 seconds, total = 386 seconds. Simone: package = 73 seconds, dance = 67 seconds, Tom, judges, and scores = 139 seconds, total = 279 seconds. Normani got 138% of what Simone got.
So every single week Normani has gotten more screen time than Simone, ranging somewhere from about 10% more to almost 40% more. For whatever reason, they are clearly making a habit of giving Normani and Val more screen time than Simone and Sasha. I’m sure you could find other such relationships if you looked at all of the screen time from the first three weeks. It’s very telling, though, to see something like this hold for 4 weeks straight.
Please note, these are just what I found from rewatching. Lisa C or anybody else, please feel free to correct me if I was significantly off in my timing.
On a related note, I was wondering why they’ve gone to letting all 4 judges speak every time. I like it much better with just 3 speaking.
Good job, btw. And I’d love to see this in previous seasons.
I vaguely remember this coming up in regards to how they were treating Meryl and Maks vs Charlie and Sharna.
It is very interesting to see it all laid out.
@LisaC do you have recordings of the first 3 shows? If not I do, and wouldn’t mind helping out.
Adding to this, Simone has NEVER been interviewed by Erin after her dance. Never. Can this be said about any of the other contestants? In comparison, Normani has been interviewed 3 out of 4 times by Erin after her dance.
Thanks for doing this very interesting how it all plays out.
You are utterly amazing! Fascinating disparity, isn’t it? Totally, deviously, planned and executed to perfection. It’s bad enough for viewers to be treated so badly, but think of the celebrities and pros that have to be subjected to this crap…the futility of their hard work, hours of practice that mean absolutely nothing. I’m glad I don’t devote much time to this show and even happier that Derek and Mark have left. I am totally steamed. Why would anyone, pro dancer or celeb, want to do this show? There are better ways to earn money and notoriety. Would love to see this analysis for the past few seasons. “Sublimal” messages for sure. I hope the producers and entire cast read this.
Just wondering since I started reading pure after Nyle won.
During his season, I feel TPTB want Ginger to won right? But then Nyle blew everyone away. (Paige still the better dancer but we all know TPTB loves this kinda story)
Which is also the case with Nick and Sharna. They didn’t expect Bindi to be so good and so charming.
Last season manipulation was so bad, they literally have to disable international vote. Last season should be James’s, the same Giles should won season 8 and All Stars (still so bitter about it)
I don’t Nick. That would be great. I’m sure PH would love to have the numbers for the entire season.
@Fey I don’t agree. I think TPTB realized that Ginger didn’t really have a shot to win, so they were just aiming to get her into the finals, which they did, screwing Wanya over in the process. I also don’t think that Giles was the rightful winner of season 8. Shawn and Mark did an awesome freestyle that won people over, and I think they were the rightful winners.
Wow!!! What a good post! Thank you and thanks to Lori C.
I would love to have all the numbers. And if more than one person does every week going forward, that will allow more accuracy, I think .
@Princess Heidi I would love to do my best to provide numbers for the coming weeks, but I can’t guarantee that I’ll get it done because sometimes real life gets in the way. If I do get it done, where would you like me to give you the numbers? Would you like it in the comments of a post? As a message via the “contact us” button? Some other method?
#m I knew it! You don’t even have to crunch the numbers, exactly, to see it when you rewatch this season from week 1-the discrepancy is very obvious! What I keep wondering is whether or not a certain pro, should I really name a certain pro name again??, is in the loop and knowingly goes along with the producers manipulation on purpose. When that certain pro, continuously, takes up enough air time to dominate over others, that’s a problem and I find it hard to believe he doesn’t know what he’s doing or that he’s doing it….BS!!!
We started timing things informally when Derek and Nastia got little to no time as compared to Val and Rumer, who were getting double packages and lots of PR all week every week. Derek and Marilu were completely robbed of face time, too – with very little time with Erin or Tom and very little PR during the week. Mark and Paige were treated the same way, with so little face time that we wondered where they were… I haven’t kept any of our timings or my recordings of past seasons, or even past weeks, but the inequities have been VERY obvious over the last several seasons. It drives me crazy! And it’s SOOO unfair! And then there is the uneven posting by the official DWTS sites of rehearsals and interviews during the week. Even if there are interviews by ET or the like, only SOME of those get posted at the official DWTS sites while others are ignored and not reposted. BuddyTV is in on that sort of bias, too…
lol…and then there was CHaro! Oh Charo…hoggin up camera time and messing TPTB’s agenda…they had to kick her off!
Fascinating post, Princess Heidi. Honestly, the manipulation has put a damper on my enjoyment of the show.
Fey, I believe Nyle was the beneficiary of manipulation as well as Ginger during their season. I’ll wait and see what other methods PH talks about next week; but for now, just to add to what Laure R. said, seven of Nyle’s All-Access appearances were posted on the show’s official YouTube channel, vs. only one of Paige’s. That one posting of Paige’s AA appearance came on the 7th week; the night of her jive.
In totalling up the time, Nyle had nearly 33 minutes of AA time posted. Jodie was next, with just over 12 minutes over the span of five appearances. Ginger had two appearances posted, for a total of 4:15. Wanya and Paige each had one appearance posted, for 1:44 and 1:49, respectively.
Other than Nyle, it was Maks who had the most AA time posted on the YT channel. In addition to appearing during one of Nyle’s appearances and during one of Ginger’s appearances, he had over 21 minutes of AA appearances posted.
#Laurie R. Yep such manipulation has been going on season after season and it’s gone way beyond time counting in the ballroom….
Thanks so much for writing this and the statistics. But, man, how sad and unfair! I don’t get the big deal on Normani at all.
@Vogue – Me either. If she was partnered with a different pro maybe I would feel differently.
BTW, Happy Easter to you and your family. And all of the mods as well. 🙂
Thank you for doing this! It’s become blatantly obvious how lopsided the screen time is between the couples. And I agree, Val knows by opening up his big mouth every week they get more camera time.
I’m not worried about Simone. If she was to go, it would be very, very obvious what was going on even to people who don’t see it or refuse to believe it. I’m hoping TPTB haven’t sunk that low yet, but you never know. They need to get over the need to have Val and his mouth make it to the end. This is not Val’s show and it never will be. He’s not the best choreographer on the show. Sasha, Artem, Lindsay and Emma have proven they are much better. They don’t have the wasted time in each dance that he, and Maks, always seem to have.
I don’t get Normani at all. When I go on Twitter during the show, everything is about Normani. Everything. She’s not all that. I just go with the belief that if her tweens are spending so much time doing that, they’re not voting. And since she’s not getting the votes, TPTB are doing what they need to so she makes it to at least the final four. How I would love to see a truly shocking elimination and see her go out before the halfway mark. Her and Heather. I know, I know, it’s a dream, but it could happen.
On another note, a question for the mods. Is there a way a comparison can be done by the type of dances each couple does each week? I’m asking because it seems like some, especially Heather, seem to be doing the same type of dance every week. Heather hasn’t done a slow dance at all and I’m wondering if she ever will. Like Zendaya who never danced in heels, is Heather going to be the PROFESSIONAL dancer that never does a waltz?
A huge thank you to all the mods for this wonderful site. I know it takes a lot of time, but it’s appreciated by so many. Happy Easter everyone!
The manipulation is in full swing. I felt it in my gut as so many do, and now the numbers do not lie. Normani is all over the internet, I was checking FB and heavens people will say they like someone, but they LOVE Normani. I do think she is a very pleasant girl, but up until now she has not done enough Foxtrot or Rumba for me to vote for her. I am curious to know if the show is just riding the wave or feeding the beast.
Anyone who wants to contribute to this can email it to me at Heidi@purederekhough.com
And to the idiot criticizing this post as a smear against Normani and commenting on the sample size – LEARN TO READ. I very clearly state that we don’t know if it means anything until we look at the season as a whole. And GTFO this site until you learn to behave in an acceptable manner.
I don’t think most people realize it, Joanne. I have just felt it in the past, that some people got more time than others. I’ve made comments about it many times, but never had the time to actually time it, thanks to all my other duties. I know that Marilu got way less time than other dancers, but again, had no time to do anything about it. With Derek no longer on the show, I do have a bit more time. 🙂
How badly do you think this will hurt Simone in getting to the finals atleast?
#Rachel Very good question!! ?☹️
Without Mark or Derek, Val is their top male pro. When they were on the show, such nastiness flowed out of both C bros. If you can only be great when your competition is not there, how can you feel you are the best you can be? How can a forced win still feel like a victory? What ever happened to morals and ethics and working hard to deserve a win?! This show needs to be fair to all pros and celebrities. How can you ask people to be on the show and treat them unfairly? Sickening! Will there be outrage if Val wins again like there was with the “Derek always wins and Derek always gets a ringer” crowd? Sorry for the rant. Happy Easter! Thank you mods for all you do. You are the best!
#katrina seuss, I agree with you 100%. The C bros took every opportunity they had to bad mouth Derek. I always chalked it up to jealousy. They know, whether they want to admit it or not, Derek, and Mark for that matter, are better than they are. Their choreography doesn’t come close to being on that level. Too much time wasting and not enough dancing.
A forced win, a manipulated win, whatever it’s called, is not a win. And how Val can think otherwise astounds me. I want to believe that somewhere inside him, he knows that, but then I realize it’s Val, and of course he doesn’t believe that.
As the saying goes, to be a champion, you have to beat a champion. And you have to beat the champion without any manipulating by TPTB.
I think the question are they riding the wave or feeding the beast, as mentioned above, is key. To me it was obvious they pimped Nyle to the high heavens, but I couldn’t figure out whether it was because he brought a huge fan contingency from Top Model that they capitalized on, or whether they gained support for him by replaying his unique story. I think the situation this season with Normani presents a similar scenario, as are the scenarios with Nastia and Simone, although I sense they are having trouble holding Simone down. I still think there’s a very good chance she’ll end up on top.
Very interesting, Princess H, and thank you for writing about this. Thank you to Lisa C, too, for providing the data.
This may only be for week 4, but it is already irksome to know that one of the celebs has considerably more camera time than another. Having nearly two minutes more camera time is significant; every second on screen is precious. Ask the advertisers. While I don’t worry about Simone (yet), I do worry that this kind of treatment will continue for her for the rest of the season and might cost her a spot in the finals. I certainly hope not.
Looking forward to part 2, Princess H.
Okay LisaC I’ll get a start on that tonight. ? Happy Easter, Passover, or spring. Whichever applies to whoever is reading. ??
Normani was first and her group mates were there. Couldn’t this be a cause? Talk more at the beginning and the time gets away from them. So they have to start shortening? Bonner, Simone and Erika were the last ones to perform. They didn’t have as many seconds but they had the placement seconds that count–lasting impression.
I recall Normani opening the first week as well? People always talk about their favorite performing toward the beginning. People will forget them after the 2 hours are up. Well Normani’s done it 2 out of the 4 weeks. Now you’re trying to figure a way that her Air time is more beneficial? Besides, there’s been a couple of routines that Len didn’t like the choreography. That’s extra as well. Has Simone been flying back and forth performing? I think part of the reason they wanted Normani was her other activities which would be more to talk about.
I think Simone, through no fault of her own, has little chance of winning. No one wants 2 back to back Olympic gymnast from the same team. It should have never been offered to her this year, a few seasons down the road she would probably have killed. This season they got very professional dancers and she evens the field somewhat. I also think they are running out of options, so they will take any cast they can get.
On another topic altogether, next season will be season 25, and I expect they will try to do great things for it. I also believe the show is wearing thin and it might be the last season. My dream would be to let it be a pro season. All past and present pros (troupe too!) can team up and compete. It would be awesome to see Mark & Julianne, Derek & Lindsay (or Haley), Maks & Peta , Sasha & Emma, Sharna & Val, even bring old timers like Corky & Shirley Ballas. I would never leave my TV that night, a dream dance show!
Simone will be fine. Personally I think it helps her getting interviewed by Tom rather than Erin he’s a lot more warm and less annoying. I certainly don’t think TPTB want Simone eliminated, I think they want her in the final. Rashad, Simone Normani is probably the dream final for TPTB at this point. Emma v Sasha drama and of course Val gets in there. Simone and Normani are their two most marketable females as well and they can continue to ride the gravy train of their young canvases. It’s win win.
Oh and PJC season 25 will certainly not been the last one. The ratings are outstanding for a show 12 years old and ABC which is currently in a very weak state, won’t find anything better to replace it with. Bar a sudden ratings collapse, DWTS will easily see a season 30 and probably many more after that. Even then, they wouldn’t cancel the show, they’d simply cut it to one season a year rather than two.
PJC I agree about Simone likely not winning but I think she’s probably getting a good amount of votes based i=on things like her running order positions. Also this season (or possibly next) was probably her only opportunity to come on the show, as she starts gymnastics training again either this fall or early next year. I hope she was aware of the inevitable backlash and that she’s not too dead-set on winning but moreso on enjoying the experience and having some fun in her time off.
With a possible screenwriters strike on the horizon I think DWTS will last until at least next spring, likely longer if ratings hold up.
It will be interesting to see if the producers make any modifications to screen time for the celebs this week. They must have read these posts. Meanwhile, I will be waiting to see the Move Beyond Tour…entertainment at it’s finest, fabulous dancing and choreography, and talent that Val will never have. Oh, and no manipulation…
Possibly, countrybend. We’ll see when we look at the numbers this coming week. Bonner should have had the shortest amount of time since he went last – yet he doesn’t. I find that a bit odd. It’s also no joke that Simone has not had an Erin interview, if that’s correct.
:::rolls eyes::: Countrybend, you did so well with your first post, now you’re just trolling. Boo Hoo, poor Normani.
Again, untwist your knickers and look at this post how it was intended, if that is possible for OTT fangirls. We are looking at actual numbers and discussing them for what they are. Many things are beneficial on this show – going first is actually GOOD. We’ve studied that as well. Talk to me when Normani goes 2nd, 3rd or 4th – the real doom spots up until about week 6 or so. There are many things that are detrimental – Normani hasn’t actually experienced any of those.
As for len not liking the routine?? VAL’S fault – he broke the rules and he knew what he as doing. So, that would be tough shit. As for flying back and forth? NORMANI’s FAULT, her choice, she knew it would be hard to do this show and fly back and forth. NO ONE made her sign on the dotted line. Deal with it. Spare me the sob story.
DWTS isn’t going anywhere just yet. I don’t agree with M8, necessarily, that we could see 30 seasons, but it will likely go beyond 25 and 26. It’s total viewer numbers are very good and it’s always sucked in the demo. They have to hope that ABC doesn’t come up with some really stellar stuff under their new exec – and it’s likely they will at some point. When they have a lot of great stuff on the air, DWTS won’t be long for the world.
You never know what it is but you can always feel the producers hyping certain performers. Generous judging vs critical comments for the same mistakes, Carrie Ann “doesn’t see a lift” from one couple but she does for so many others, you never know what it is but you know its there. Val came into this season as if he was ordained the winner. They have been brutal on Heather in judging, and Simone has been nearly invisible… that was the sense, and now you can see it’s true! No matter how well DWTS has done this season, they never get past the “Voice” and its this type of gamesmanship that is the reason! Let the dancers dance, let the judging be fair, and let the fans vote. Reflect all of those elements equally and fairly and the show will be the success they want it to be. Squeaky clean Disney should be ashamed of themselves! Their show is rigged! When you purposely minimize someone like Simone you should be drawn and quartered! Hello Channing Dungey we’re talking to YOU!
This is why I watch this show via DVR so I can equally fast forward through everyone lol
Yeah, I think DWTS is safe for a few of its seasons. The stuff that the old exec left behind/got rolling still has to be gotten through, and that may take a regular season or two (so perhaps 2-4 DWTS seasons). The old exec left behind what could charitably be called a dumpster fire, and DWTS is one of the few shows that is pulling in decent ratings that isn’t a show created by Shonda Rhimes. That’s valuable since a network doesn’t want to be completely beholden to one creator.
Hi. Happy Holiday to All!
DWTS has been approved already for Seasons 25 & 26. Their #s have been slipping, but gradually. Still a well rated show even w/o Mark & Derek, just not as enjoyable.
Agree with the once a year idea. NBC is doing that. They want the Voice only once a year & Idol once a year. It gives both the viewers & judges/hosts a break & keeps it fresher.
I’m halfway through week 1’s counter for time, and I feel like I’m going to see a pattern with a lot of the couples for weeks 3 and 2. It’s not a good pattern either. I’m hoping I’m wrong but I can remember vividly that these “pattern” contestants have one thing in common, their partner and his/her standing on the show.
Side note- There is a good chance that they are timing it up in the production offices to effectively fit in each judges critique, I believe someone had mentioned that in a previous comment. Also I think Charo’s outbursts weren’t necessarily an issue as they had balanced the 1st week rather intentionally (not in terms of camera time, but rather how the first half stacked up versus the second half of the show). What I mean by that is, in my analysis this far, is that the couples in the first half had a strong amount of time to fill versus the second half, who consequently only had their package and dance to really fill in time. Everything from after Heather’s dance was indefinitely hurried, but intentionally hurried if that makes sense. It flowed with a lingering sense of rushing to the finish. Cannot wait to see how PH spins these numbers into words for I couldn’t do what PH does. Thanks ladies for all your hard work!
Er, this show has been manipulated since before Channing has been in charge.
Also, DWTS beats the Voice in total viewers and I seem to recall hearing that it was crashing in the Demo as well.
An approval can always be withdrawn. But I don’t recall hearing that it had already been picked up for 26.
I can’t forgive this show for cheating Amy and Derek out of their deserved mirrorball. Pimping that fake relationship etween Maks and Meryl was despicable. Look at who Derek won with. Except for Nicole Scherzinger he had no gimmes. Unlike the Chmerkovski Bros. I’m rooting for Simone and Sasha or Nancy and Artem.
Interesting to note that Normani doesn’t even appear once in the latest Disney Night ad. I don’t know if this means anything, or if the producers have changed gears with regards to who they’re pushing for.
@Carlos – Given that the line-up last week had to be completely retooled to accommodate Fifth Harmony’s schedule, I don’t think it’s a stretch to assume that she maybe had other commitments this week and wasn’t able to be in the promo.
Princess Heidi, It did read like you were using data/facts to allude to a certain position. Kinda like a person making a joke and laughing when he’s dead serious.
I wasn’t trying to make excuses for Normani because she’s been going back and forth. I was throwing out that TPTB probably wanted her because of that. It’s a built-in story line which means they have a bonafide script everytime she comes up. So they talk more. I didn’t know people thought going first was beneficial. I had just always seen where people state the scores won’t be as good because they are first. And if you don’t have a pleasing/enjoyable routine, people will forget your performance by the end of the show. And the reason I brought up Len not liking the choreography was to point out this would mean Len is talking more than normal. I agree that Len should let Val or whoever know when they fall short.
So I was just trying to throw out ideas why there might be discrepancies–not fan girling. I just don’t think they are purposely keeping Normani on air longer just for her benefit. But I do think they’re trying to figure out who has the best support among, Heather, Normani and Nancy. Then they’ll have their talking points set because I really think Simone and Rashad are probably racking up the votes.
You people are the BEST at exposing DWTS! Props to you!
The Voice is still beating DWTS in the desired demo, but it’s not as strong as it used to be and I’d imagine it must be pretty expensive to have those four judges week-to-week, much more than the DWTS judges 🙂 Even so, the production costs for DWTS must have skyrocketed since the early days when they had simple sets and didn’t have a big production with troupe for every other dance. I think DWTS may continue for a while, but would not be at all surprised if it was scaled back to once per year.
You really don’t get the whole “qualified response” idea, do you countrybend? It IS a fact that Normani had the most screen time last monday night. It just is. But I very clearly stated that we don’t know that it means anything yet. BUT, history has also very clearly shown that they will do what it takes to get Val to the end, whether he deserves it more than another couple or not. This is quite easy to see when you’ve been watching the show for a long time. It is also true that there are MANY ways this show can be manipulated – not just this one way. So if, tonight, Normani doesn’t have the most screen time, it doesn’t automatically follow that she isn’t being pimped. You have to look at the whole picture. If they suddenly start showing her and Val fighting, then there will be a counter to the pimping argument. But I suspect that, much like last season, Val will get the most ridiculous edit possible, showing him the sweetest, kindest person on the whole show. And Derek the big meanie – oh wait, they drove him away with that edit. Point is, you can’t just erase 23 seasons of history that most of us have been watching.
As for the going first thing – that’s another benefit to having read this site for a long time. Courtney actually did a bit of a study several seasons back comparing how quickly you get eliminated with your running order in the preceding week or weeks. Her post made a rather compelling case that going first is good (as is going last or in the last half hour), going 2nd, 3rd or 4th is bad…until it gets to the point where there are only 6 or 7 couples – can’t remember which. There is a point in the season where running order no longer matters. I think it was the quarter finals. In recent seasons, the person going first has been slightly underscored compared to the rest of the dancers – but at this stage, it shouldn’t matter for Normani, particularly if she is getting so much more screen time when going first.
Of course they know who has the most support – they see the vote totals. I’m sure they have other metrics they can look at, but at the end of the day, it’s an awfully big risk to go against the voters. The problem for them is if it’s NOT Normani, or if it’s close between Normani, Rashad and Simone (and even possibly David). Most of the time, we figure everything out after the season is over, because you don’t really know how it’s going to go down until it does.
So I hope you don’t mind, but I took your numbers and converted them to percentages. Dividing a contestant’s seconds by total seconds. I thought this would be interesting because with 10 contestants you would expect numbers all hovering around 10%. Obviously this wasn’t the case, but what I thought was interesting is that this week it seems like if you got extra time you got A LOT of extra time (except for Rashad) and if you got less time it was not quite as large (except for Simone). What that means is that they had to give 6 people less than 10% to make up for the amount of time they gave to the people with more. I’m sure the producers didn’t look at it quite in the same terms I am, but I just thought it was interesting.
One quick note that my totals don’t quite equal 100 (actually equal 100.02) due to rounding.
Celeb Percentage
Normani 11.97
Nancy 11.07
David 10.88
Rashad 10.44
Nick 9.84
Heather 9.40
Mr. T 9.35
Erika 9.16
Bonner 9.16
Simone 8.75
I felt the first manipulation started when Tony/Melissa won and Derek/Shawn Johnson came in second for the All Star S15.
ter, there was some manipulation there, but I don’t think it was quite that simple. I think that Tony/Melissa had the benefit of having never won before and they repeated that phrase over and over and over again. Combine that with the thrashing (unnecessary) that they judges gave Shawn and Derek for being rule breakers – when I believe only one dance ever fit that category – and it was easy to see how it went the way it did. Hell, Len yelled at Derek for having a cow in the background of one dance when it was a THEME week and everyone had props. Melissa had a freakin’ carriage she got out of and he didn’t say a word. Judges were very harsh on Shawn while giving Melissa tongue baths. And she did one of the poorest freestyles around as well. Bad contemporary, as I recall.
Interestingly, they seem to have dropped the whole “hold the good dancers to a higher standard” narrative these days unless yer name is Hough.
#ter I agree-I don’t think any kind of manipulation about this show started to become so evident as it did beginning with that damned Allstar season….
@Heidi
I thought her Melissa’s Argentine Tango was pretty shocking too. I adored the one she did in her first season, but the All-Stars one was, IMO, off-balance and totally reliant on lifts (the last of which I thought looked seriously ungainly).
I think disagree with the argument that they are only harsh on Derek. Because they were very fair and even over top with Kellie,Amy, Amber and Bindi. It all depends on how the celebrity is doing in the voting department and the narrative the producers want to follow. If their celeb is knocking out of the park in the voting they will not knock you down instead they’ll over hype and uplift them. If they see that they are not necessarily killing it on voting then they will probably not give you as many compliments and sacrifice you for another contestant. There is reason why Derek has won 6 times because of his choreography and the producers, if they were really up to get him they would have done everything they could to sabotage his winning. But they have painted him in a bad light with Nastia and Marilu because they weren’t the most popular celebrities and the producers thought they would sacrifice them for other more popular contestants like Noah and Terra. I do not think they hate the Houghs it just depends on what kind celebrities they have and they’ll give them a bad edit because not everyone can be happiness and rainbows. Everyone has been victim of this, Wayna and Lindsay, Val and Tamar, Whitney and Carlos. Done.
@Golden – Ummm, what? I’m having a hard time following your logic (probably because there isn’t any) – so if a couple is not doing well, the producers go out of their way to make them look WORSE and get them out earlier??? I see zero incentive for them to do that. And the examples you give don’t really support your theory – Wanya (not Wayna) was a threat to Ginger, the company gal who they likely assured would make the finale in order to get her to sign in the first place; Tamar withdrew due to injury, so you can’t really argue that they orchestrated her exit; and Witney and Carlos just weren’t that good, honey.
And now we’re done.
@Golden I think you misunderstand a few points. First of all, a person doesn’t have to be getting bad edits or getting hammered by the judges to still not be getting a fair deal. For example, you mentioned Amy. Yes, it’s true that she wasn’t getting a ton of bad edits and super intense criticism. It is also true that in her season, the entire narrative that was promoted by the producers was “Maks has never won! He’s been doing this for so long and never won! Is this his year?!” and “Are Meryl and Maks falling for each other?!” Everyone else took a back burner to the showmance and the “Maks has never won” hype. So while Amy may not have been portrayed badly, she still suffered from not being part of the preordained “main story” of the season. A similar thing happened with James last season. While the producers didn’t set out to make him look bad in packages (which would’ve worked against them because it would’ve pissed off the viewers), James suffered because of the Laurie show that happened every week.
Second, with a person like Bindi, she isn’t an example of TPTB being so nice and giving to Derek, she’s more an example of the fact that if somebody is really connecting to the audience and the audience just can’t get enough, then it is to the advantage of the show to give the people what they want. That’s not a benevolent gift to Bindi and Derek, that’s just the producers realizing that they may have plans for who the predetermined “it couple” is, but if somebody else really takes the country by storm, they’ll lose fans by trying to stifle that person. We’re seeing a similar situation this season. I don’t think TPTB expected David and Rashad to be nearly as popular as they are. However, now that they are extremely popular, it would be stupid to try to hammer hard to get rid of them because then you’d have a bunch of angry viewers. Again, it’s not the producers being so kind to David and Rashad, it’s them realizing that David and Rashad are runaway trains in terms of popularity, and there’s no use trying to stop them.
The bottom line is this: nobody on this site sees DWTS like some children’s cartoon in which there are the “bad guys” (i.e. Chmerkovskiys) who are constantly benefitting from devious plots and have never done a redeemable thing in their lives compared to the “good guys” (i.e. Derek) whose entire existence is plagued by a long series of meanness and misfortune. I think we all realize that it’s not that black and white. Does Val have a ringers to challenges ratio far higher than any other pro on the show? Definitely. Do we think that he has never done any good ever on the show and that he deserves no credit for anything he’s ever done? Certainly not. Do we think that Derek and his partners have gotten screwed over in favor of others multiple times? Yes. Do we think that the show constantly sets out to make Derek’s life miserable? No.
The only REAL thing about DWTS is this site. Thank heavens!
I’m into the DVR, watch, FF through the crap–including all judges’ comments, unless I think Tom is letting lose with a zinger, FF through Erin, FF through any Housewife or Bachelor contestant. So it’s about a 15 minute watch for me!
LOL. And I don’t vote anymore.
I come here during the next week to get the REAL news.
Data speaks! Thanks for relaying its story to us, Princess Heidi.
And replace it with what Rose? ABC aren’t stupid, they won’t find anything that will rate better than DWTS. They’re making cuts but ones that don’t affect the show, All Access being an example. They also have a dirt cheap band with Ray Chew live rather than the expensive Harold Wheeler and his full orchestra. DWTS is doing more than fine.
@M8,another reality show that appeals to younger people? They aren’t bringing in the young people. I have not idea what their status is, just saying that it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if they went to one season per year.
Yeah, golden, you don’t get to call “done”. As for the rest of it…I don’t think I’m going to waste my time. There are just too many examples of them calling out Derek, then letting Val slide for the same thing (sometimes in the SAME episode) that if you don’t get it now, you just don’t want to.
So five weeks without Simone doing an interview with Erin. Undeniably a pattern there. I’ve wondered if she doesn’t like doing them so they find ways around it? That’s the most positive way I could spin such an obvious exclusion.
However, I’ve never heard anything about her having interview nerves, so I gotta think that it’s a deliberate attempt to reduce her visibility. Which is interesting because she’s one of the biggest “gets” of the season – I think it shows how much of a narrative their trying to control.
This post is the bloggers equivalent of a big ass mic drop to all the “Val and his partners aren’t pimped!”. You’ve just been READ FOR FILTH kiddos!
What an awesome post! I mean getting total camera time for each couple down to seconds is so illuminating.